EP 5: The Key to Long-Term Employee Retention

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Renee Thompson:
Plants thrive and grow in a peaceful, nourished environment, right? Well, it's the same with human beings, but what if that environment is not so peaceful? What if it's toxic? Welcome to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. In this podcast, you'll get practical, evidence-based strategies to help you cultivate and sustain a healthy and respectful work culture by tackling an age-old problem in healthcare: bullying and incivility. I am your host, Dr. Renee Thompson.

Renee Thompson:
Hi everyone! Welcome back to another episode of Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. I am your host, Dr. Renee Thompson, and it's really good to be with all of you today. I'm excited for today's chit-chat because we'll be talking about retention. Now, recent studies show leaders spend time and energy worrying about two things: retention and the well-being of their employees. And I know this because I talk to leaders all the time, and that's all they want to talk about, is how do they retain their teams and how do they take care of their well-being, so it's a big ticket item. Well, today, we're going to tackle the retention issue that leaders are dealing with right now, and I just happen to know a retention expert. I'm thrilled to welcome to Coffee Break today's guest, Cara Silletto, president and chief retention officer of Magnet Culture. Cara, welcome to Coffee Break.

Cara Silletto:
Hey, I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

Renee Thompson:
Absolutely. When I was thinking about, all right, who can I have on our podcast as a guest to really help our leaders who are listening, who can really help me give them additional strategies about how to retain their employees? Of course, immediately, I thought of you, Cara. And just to give you a little bit of information about who Cara is, Cara is a workforce thought leader and keynote speaker. She works with organizations to reduce unnecessary employee turnover by bridging generational gaps and making managers more effective in their roles. Workforce Magazine in Chicago named Cara a game-changer, which I love, and Recruiter.com listed her in their top ten company culture experts to watch. She is also the author of the book Staying Power, okay, I got it right here, Why Your Employees Leave and How to Keep Them Longer. And I wanted to tell you a little bit more about Cara. Cara and I actually met several years ago at the National Speakers Association, one of their conferences, and I knew immediately when I met Cara that she and I were going to be great colleagues and friends. Think about this, I am all about cultivating a healthy work culture, and the work that Cara does to help leaders know how to retain their employees fits so well with what we do here at the Healthy Workforce Institute so, it was an immediate connection. So I'm really excited to have you here, Cara. And can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and maybe how you became such an expert on retaining talent, especially in today's new work world?

Cara Silletto:
Absolutely. And first, I have to give you kudos for being the expert in your space, and I was just telling this workforce exchange group that I run, yesterday, I was telling them, you've got to follow Renee Thompson.

Renee Thompson:
Yes, they do.

Cara Silletto:
The feeling is mutual. I just think you're brilliant, and I'm glad to collaborate on this and other things with you as well, friend.

Renee Thompson:
Oh, thank you.

Cara Silletto:
Thanks for having me. And yeah, so what's interesting, I did not wake up one day saying I'm going to be a retention expert, that did not happen. What actually happened is I have a passion for helping people and businesses grow, and I happen to have my MBA in entrepreneurship. They taught me to listen to the market and solve a costly problem. So when I launched my business about 11 years ago, I was only 31 years old back then, and everybody was complaining about millennials, which I happened to be one, I have purple hair and tattoos and all the fun things. And so I said, well, if I'm only 31 years old, how do I have credibility to talk to these leaders, some of whom were twice my age, and try to help them be better leaders? So I said, I can help bridge the gap, because I was one of the oldest millennials or I am one of the oldest millennials, and yet I had worked for more than ten years by the Baby Boomer and Gen X expectations and standards, and I had learned to play that game and show up the way they wanted me to show up, but yet, I was very wired like a stereotypical millennial was, and so I was kind of caught in the middle. A few years into that, a coach of mine said, it's going to be tough to only do generational work because there's no line item on the PNL, you know, or the budget for bridging generational gaps. And she asked me, what's the business problem you're solving when you do this generational work? And I said, well, if leaders don't understand their people, the people are going to quit. So really, we are helping reduce unnecessary employee turnover. And that conversation happened in 2015 when we saw it was getting harder and harder to get and keep people just coming out of that previous recession, and in 2015, we went all in on all things retention. Why do people leave? Why do people stay? People of all ages, different mindsets, what are the different motivators and incentives? All the things. And so, for years now, I've been eating, sleeping, breathing, retention, and just trying to solve the problem for organizations all around the country.

Renee Thompson:
That is such wise, almost accidental advice. There you were focused on generations and, in particular, people complain they really do about the millennials. They stereotype them, they overgeneralize, and there you were, taking a step back. You know, you had somebody say, where's the line item for this? How do we actually budget this? And you realized that generations and understanding that was really a strategy per se, or one of the issues under the umbrella of retention.

Cara Silletto:
That's it. That's how we think of today.

Renee Thompson:
Because the problem is retention.

Cara Silletto:
Yeah, so, we actually call it the retention umbrella. And then we have, yeah, we have different kind of pillars and different strategies that fall under that, including, bridging generational gaps is just one piece of what we do today. A lot of it has to do with leadership development, just creating better leaders and giving them the skills to be successful. And even onboarding is its own whole other pillar because, as you know, that new hire experience when people come into your work world, it is critical to get that right. And so we have found other big pillars under that retention umbrella that have to be strong and in place and properly maintained in order to get the results they want.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah, so well said. And one of the things that I really appreciate about you, and I want all of you who are listening right now to know, that Cara does not just serve leaders in healthcare, she serves a much wider audience. Cara, you're not a nurse, to my knowledge, are you?

Cara Silletto:
Never been a nurse, no.

Renee Thompson:
Not a nurse, however, I think we can really learn strategies from people outside of healthcare, because some of your clients are healthcare clients. I know you do work with healthcare clients.

Cara Silletto:
Yes! In fact, more than half, more than half of our clients are in healthcare across the continuum of acute and post-acute and all different spaces. But I purposefully, Renee, people have said to me, you should just focus on healthcare. And I said, no, because I don't want to get healthcare blinders on and think this is how we do it in healthcare. So I still serve manufacturing, construction, agriculture, I've got an engineering firm that's a client, you know, all different groups. And I love seeing that because when healthcare complains about scheduling problems, right, and we got to have 24/7, 365 coverage, well, so does a manufacturing plant. If they're running two, three shifts, and, you know, they also have scheduling issues, and sometimes, I can talk to them about how they resolve those scheduling problems and bring the new best practices into my healthcare clients, which is great. So I do kind of specialize in the healthcare field, but I want to make sure that I do at least 25% of my work outside of that so I don't get stuck in our ways, right?

Renee Thompson:
Well, that's exactly why you were the first person I thought of, because to your point, in healthcare, we can get very narrow-minded, we're so focused. Because you know this about me, Cara, we don't go outside of healthcare.

Cara Silletto:
Right.

Renee Thompson:
We stay right in this lane. I always say pick a lane and stay in the lane. However, there are some topics, bullying and incivility could be one of them, retention absolutely is one of them, where it makes sense to go a little broader. However, what I love about you and your work is that you have those other experiences that can actually then become a benefit to those of us who are working in healthcare. And we know right now retention is a top priority in healthcare, but it's a top priority in other industries too. So why would you say that retaining talent right now is more challenging today than when it was back in 2015 when you started doing this work?

Cara Silletto:
Yeah, so we have the three C's of the state of the workforce right now. It is choice, everyone's hiring so people have choices. It is comparison data, which is, we now have access to how much money is everybody making in different roles, and what's the workload like, and what's the company culture like over there versus over here. You got all these websites, Glassdoor, Indeed, Fishbowl, all these different sites out there now that the employees are saying what it's like to be there, you know? So the comparison data is huge and just didn't even exist or wasn't accessible ten-plus years ago. And the third is confidence, the confidence, the risk tolerance the new workforce has, and it isn't just the young folks. It's kind of trickling up where people are saying, well, if they're demanding that, I'm going to demand that, you know? And so the confidence factor has just changed the game where the employees know everybody's hiring, and I'm a valuable asset, so I can go somewhere else if they don't do what I want or treat me the way I want or pay me the way I want, those types of things. So yeah, those are some of the overlying issues that have really changed, even just in the last five years, I would say those have exponentially increased: the choices, that comparison data, and the confidence levels.

Renee Thompson:
Now, do you see some of that playing out on social media too? Where employees from a certain organization who might be looking to go somewhere else is posting things on social media to ask their colleagues. Just like, I know myself, I was looking for somebody, a contractor, to build me a custom wall in my house. We are fairly new, we live in Tampa, we're fairly new to the Tampa area. I have no idea who would be a contractor. So I went on social media, and I said, who's a good contractor? Do you think employees are doing that also?

Cara Silletto:
Oh, absolutely. There's also a ton of more transparency today, especially around pay and culture and benefits and things like that. And if you think about it, the generations who came before me, they were told, you don't talk about three things: politics, money, and religion. You just don't talk about that. You don't share that with your neighbors and extended outside the family. Even your family, you don't talk about it, right, in some extent. And so now, what do you see all over social? Definitely politics and religion, right? And now we're seeing this push of transparency, particularly around pay, because with reports in the last 10 or 15 years showing the inequity of pay for people of color and women in particular, those two groups, along with others as well; but that has really come to the forefront of the lower pay that those groups are making compared to white men, for example, right, is the comparison that we have. And once those reports became known, it was, the workforce's mission to overcome the inequities and to be more transparent. And I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of 100% transparency. Like, everybody should know what everybody makes. I'm not advocating for that at all.

Renee Thompson:
I agree. I'm in your camp, yes.

Cara Silletto:
Yeah, but we definitely need more transparency than there used to be, which was, none of your business, you know? And we knew that businesses were making all those decisions behind closed doors and didn't even have pay ranges in place or a pay philosophy about how they give raises. They only gave raises to the people who came and begged for them or asked for them and things like that. So I think a lot of good policies and good practices have come from that, but yes, to answer your question, social media has heightened the awareness, the access, the sharing of that information, maybe too much. You know, we've kind of swung the pendulum a little too far in some ways, but I do think that's been a game changer, particularly this last just ten years. And people didn't have access to that when they were 20 or 30 years old if you've been in the workforce a long time.

Renee Thompson:
Oh, when I first became a nurse, that was 31 plus, maybe years ago.

Cara Silletto:
No.

Renee Thompson:
I had none of this. There was no question. I didn't know what you were paid from Hospital A compared to Hospital B, and there were no conversations about it.

Cara Silletto:
Right.

Renee Thompson:
It was, I did a clinical rotation in this hospital, in this department, and they offered me the position, so I took it.

Cara Silletto:
If you were lucky enough to get two job offers at the same time, that was the only way you knew who was paying more or where you could go to make more. Otherwise, you just took the offer that came in when it did, and you didn't have a clue. So I will say, I'm seeing that, I heard somebody tell me and I wish I could source it, but I can't, they said comparison is the thief of joy. And I'm sure it's a famous quote out there that somebody said, whatever, we can look it up, but it really does matter because I know people who are really happy in their jobs and yet they find out, wait a minute, somebody's making more than me. Or even if it's a friend who has a different job, it's not even the same kind of job, but they go, well, wait a minute, their job is easier than mine, and I get paid less, or whatever it is, right? Different comparison, but I have found that even in my own life, if I find out something about how much people are paid or making or whatever, my initial reaction is, wait, wait a minute, that's not fair, you know? And then I have to remember, I love what I do, and I like what I make, and I'm fine with all of that, right, and not worry about the comparison. But it has caused a lot of a lot more issues than there used to be on that front, for sure.

Renee Thompson:
You're right. And beyond even just what somebody getting paid, social media is a prime, let's just say opportunity for that comparison syndrome to really escalate. And I know myself, I've been the same, how many likes somebody gets compared to what I get, or, and it transfers into the workplace. And I'm curious because you really started focusing on generations and then moved into truly under that umbrella, it's all part of retention. But do generational challenges, should they be a part of a healthcare leader's retention strategy? Like, what role do generations play?

Cara Silletto:
Yeah, so I think the biggest piece of that puzzle is, do you know your people, Renee? You know, do you know your people? Because as we get older, we tend to get more disconnected or become more disconnected from the frontline in our workforce for several reasons. One reason is you're just older than they are, and so you have more experience and the slang is different, the access, the motivations, all these things are different. Also, older workers tend to then be on salary versus more younger workers are hourly, so then we have less flexibility. If somebody's kid or grandkid has a 2:00 kindergarten program, the person on salary will say, hey, I got a 2:00 program for my grandkid, and I'll be back later, where an hourly person is going to say, I can't be there, you know, I can't go, and so we have that difference. Even just as you make more money when you move up the chain with experience and job changes and whatnot, then you have more access to, well, I can get a sitter if there's a snow day, or maybe I have family members around who are retired or can help me for free, or maybe I have the means to pay them, to pay those folks. So I'm just seeing kind of a growing disconnect between the front line and the leaders, and a lot of it is the leaders just have kind of lost touch with who that new workforce is. And so many people say, well, when I was new or when I was young, when I was their age, and it's a whole different ballgame, right? Glassdoor.com didn't exist back then, and the price transparency movement wasn't happening. The technology, I mean, even just artificial intelligence and now ChatGPT and all of these things, those things didn't exist, and so, yes, it plays a part. I would say the biggest piece of retention from a generational standpoint is just, don't make assumptions and don't even blanket the generations, don't make generalizations because it's more about a person's mindset, not necessarily the year they were born. We teach that all the time. It's not about birth year, it's about mindset. Because sometimes I meet people younger than me that are in their 20s or 30s, so they're a Gen Z or a young millennial, and they are an old soul, so they are like a baby boomer trapped in a millennial body, and they are completely different than me, where I am like, well, I should be heard, and I should have flexibility, and I need advancement, and all these things that I wanted as a millennial, and they are saying, it's okay, I'll wait, I'll pay my dues, I respect my elders, and I respect authority, and all of these things that like, that's not how I am, that's not how I was raised. And so we can't judge people, but there is a reason that there are generational studies, and the reason the generational stereotypes exist is because of so many people fall into those characteristics, for example, or that mindset. So leaders just have to be aware of it and not, they have to be very intentional to avoid the disconnect and not become far away. I've even heard some managers saying, okay, well, I figured out the millennials, but Gen Z, I mean, I just don't have a clue, I'm just over it, I'm not even going to go there. And I'm thinking, how long are you going to keep working? Like, are you, if you are retiring soon that might be okay, but Gen Z is now 25, 26 years old, and only more and more of them are coming, so you got to stick with the times.

Renee Thompson:
Well, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners right now are thinking about the fact that a lot of our leaders are young people.

Cara Silletto:
That, too!

Renee Thompson:
They're being asked to manage the older, experienced employees. However, Cara, the exact same things that you said, don't stereotype, you know. So if you're a young leader, just because someone's in their 50s or 60s doesn't mean that they're always going to follow that like baby boomer pattern. Again, don't make assumptions. And I love this, it's just, it goes back to what you said right at first, get to know your people. I think that's the most important. You had mentioned earlier about working in other industries, in like manufacturing, you have scheduling, you know, 24/7, very similar to healthcare, you always have to have somebody working at 24/7, 365 days a year. So you have exposure to a lot of other industries and a lot of organizations. Can you give us a few examples of maybe what really great organizations are doing differently to really retain their teams longer?

Cara Silletto:
Yeah, so a few things that, we consider it kind of industry agnostic strategies, things that I'm seeing inside of healthcare, outside of healthcare, a huge one is creating a better new hire experience for folks. We focus so much on our customer experience, our patient experience, and we want to get that right, and we roll out the red carpet, and we do all the wonderful things for them, and we do surveys, and we check-in, how did we do? Oh, we need to improve this, right? We're constantly working on that external customer experience, and we need to think of our employees as internal customers and figure out what is that new hire experience. Are we rolling out the red carpet for them? Do we communicate effectively? Here's where to be when, here's what this is going to look like, here's what to wear on day one, you know, those kind of things and really communicating the details very, very explicitly because a lot of the workforce, they cannot read your mind as a leader or as an organization. And they may have never worked somewhere like this, or even if they worked in another environment similar to yours, yours is different. You have different acronyms, you have different policies, you have different buildings, you know, all of those things.

Renee Thompson:
Different culture, maybe.

Cara Silletto:
Absolutely. And so those unwritten expectations is a big piece of it, too. And so it is just really important to create a better new hire experience and to continue evaluating that, reevaluating that, revamping that, leveling it up, and asking your new hires, how could we make this more engaging for you? More fun! I mean, come on. When people come in, yeah, we've got compliance, check the box, check the box, you got to watch this video. Well, why not hand them a Snickers and a Dr. Pepper, which happened to be their favorite snacks while they watch the boring videos? And at least you ask them in the interview or maybe via text before their first day, hey, what's your favorite candy bar, that type of thing. And then when they have to watch the videos, you can say, well, here's a Snickers to make the time go faster or whatever. You know, make sure they don't get hangry.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah, I'm thinking, what would I ask for? Maybe not a candy bar, but I'd like a vat of buttered popcorn and a glass of really good red wine, but I don't think.

Cara Silletto:
No, no, no. … an employee, right now.

Renee Thompson:
We stick with coffee.

Cara Silletto:
Right.

Renee Thompson:
Good coffee, that's it.

Cara Silletto:
We stick with candy bars and snacks, so popcorn is a good one, yes. And then, of course, non-adult beverages, beverages for all ages is what we stick with.

Renee Thompson:
Beverages for all ages. But I think that's a really great just a simple strategy that you can do, and I so appreciate the focus on creating that really amazing new hire experience. We just did a webinar, it was in July 2023, it was all about how to protect and retain your newest graduate nurses. I am telling you how, the onboarding process starts before their first day, in calling them ahead of time and having their preceptor call them ahead of time to say, my name is Renee, I'm going to be your preceptor. I'm so excited that you're going to be starting with us. I know you're starting Monday. Do you have any questions? Do you know where to go? That new hire experience starts even before they step foot in your organization to work and how important that is. So I'm really glad to hear that that's one of your strategies too.

Cara Silletto:
Another piece of it, okay, so let's go the other direction. Yes, onboarding starts before day one, but guess what else? Onboarding lasts months. Onboarding is not a three-day program or a two-week program, it takes months to truly acclimate somebody into the culture, into the team, into the procedures. And so we also encourage them not only to make the onboarding experience, that orientation that they go through more fun, more engaging, more effective, right, cover compliance and culture with your unwritten expectations, but also what does it look like once they're handed out to their team and out to their leaders? Because then they're working with new people on every shift for a while. There still needs to be team building there. You don't have to build marshmallow towers, but you've got to.

Renee Thompson:
I have done that before. Epic failure.

Cara Silletto:
You've got to do some team-building questions, and we tell everybody at every shift huddle, you should include some type of team-building question as simple as, you know, dogs or cats, beaches or mountains, whatever, coffee or tea. Oh yeah, all of those things, just little things that help them find commonalities because we easily see differences, right? We see the generational differences, we see the style differences, communication, all of those things. We have to help our team, as a leader, we have to help them find some commonality. And so if you sprinkle team building into your existing staff huddles, staff meetings, whatever you hold, that can help also to create a longer runway for onboarding the new hires, and then just building camaraderie and trust and friendships and everything along the way. So that's why that onboarding and that new hire experience, I'm telling you, it is a huge piece of the puzzle because it can solve so many issues if you get that right.

Renee Thompson:
Well, and it goes back to what you said about getting to know your people. As the leader, it's important that you get to know your people, and again, it starts in creating that new hire fantastic experience, also helping the team to get to know each other through some of what you just described. Because, you know, Gallup has done a lot of work on what helps somebody to stay and feel valued, and it's having that sense of belonging.

Cara Silletto:
It is, work friends.

Renee Thompson:
Yes! You cannot feel a sense of belonging if nobody knows who you are. And so can you give us maybe a, you know, I'm big on the number three. Can you give us three practical strategies for leaders to either for themselves, get to know their people better, or even create an opportunity for their teams to get to know each other? Yeah, I'll let you decide.

Cara Silletto:
Yeah, no, those are great. Okay, so I need three. One is listening tours. So go on a listening tour, and you can decide how often you need to do it annually, quarterly, whatnot, but just go around and ask, how's it going? What's on your mind? What's frustrating you? You know, some people do formal stay interviews, people have heard of that. So that's a version of this, but right now I'm just keeping it informal and quick and just go on a listening tour, not a defend yourself tour, but just listen and keep your trap shut, okay? Just listen. Go talk to your people, but more than anything, ask your questions and listen, okay? Another one is, think about, many of us were raised with the golden rule, which was treat others the way you want to be treated. Well, throw that out the window because that is so 1999, and now it is the platinum rule, treat others the way they want to be treated. So you've got to understand, I'm an extrovert, I love public praise, and hey, good job, Cara, you know, but my introvert staff, they hate that. They're mortified if I call them out on a team meeting, they would much rather have behind the scenes type of praise. And so it's just really important to know your people and be able to flex with that. And then, oh my goodness, the third thing I would say is appreciate a job well done. And even if it's different than the way you would have done it, right? I appreciate different contributions, different ways people show up. And so I think a big one now is people say, I'm not going to praise mediocrity. I'm not going to put up with just the norm and say that that's awesome, right? That's not what we're asking. But if you dig way down deep and we think about, okay, wait a minute, not everyone is showing up, a lot of people are not showing up on time or meeting those expectations, and some people show up, but they don't actually do their job while they're at work. So then, if we know that's happening, we need to dig deep and find the true gratitude of any job well done and not say, well, I'm not praising people till they go above and beyond. If we have people who show up and do their job, we need to say thank you to those folks. And if you get to know your folks individually, then you know, the more you talk to them and listen to them, you'll figure out how do they want to be thanked? Do they want a handwritten note? Do they want a private one-on-one conversation? Do they want a gold star, you know, or a gift card or those kinds of things? And so those are a few of just the simple things that they need to really put in place and think about as far as getting to know their people and flexing, because one size doesn't fit all.

Renee Thompson:
You're right about that, and it just made me think about this. So many people, before they're recognized, they have to do something extraordinary, but that's not always happening. And it reminds me of, so my husband and I, we have friends or our neighbors, and we go to the beach every Sunday that we're at home, so we're going to the beach this Sunday, and we take turns driving, and whoever drives the other couple pays for parking and vice versa. I started noticing this with my friend. This is our standard. We don't even think about it. Oh, are you going to pay? Am I going to pay? It's whoever drives. We just created this as a standard practice. You know, every single time we drive, my friend Tracy says, thank you for driving. Every time they drive and we pay for parking, Tracy says, thank you for paying parking. And at first, I was like, well, that's our routine, that's the rules. And then I realized, no, she was just giving us gratitude, and I thought, what a wonderful just habit that you thank people for pretty much anything. And it makes me more grateful, it makes me look for reasons to thank someone. My husband today made the bed, and he's not always the best bedmaker. He will just take the top sheet, you know, the comforter, pull it over, and really made the bed. Yes, it's a hot mess. I'm like, oh, yeah, thank you. You made the bed. But he made the bed, it looked nice, and I just said, thank you for making the bed. Now, I could have said, it's about time you made the bed, because.

Cara Silletto:
Exactly! That's what people do. It's like, oh, well, it's nice to see you can make it in on time, you know, those kind of things. Absolutely, yeah.

Renee Thompson:
But I think just by recognizing that life isn't always easy and you never everybody has a story. You don't know what somebody's going through. And it's not to say you should placate people or you should reward people for not doing their job, but can we at least start recognizing and thinking about how somebody, and asking how they want to be recognized? You know, you mentioned public praise versus one-on-ones versus a handwritten card. That really helps you, I think, to get to know your people so that they feel valued, right? And that.

Cara Silletto:
We even made a get-to-know-you sheet for new hires. So when they come into our organization, it says, how do you like to be rewarded and recognized and those types of things? Where do you shop? What is your favorite candy and snack and things? So then we can be personalized in those rewards.

Renee Thompson:
It's really I think that's just, they're simple, they're relevant, and they don't cost a lot of money or take 27 spreadsheets to, you know, figure it out. But as we start wrapping up, Cara, if you could recommend just one action, I'm all about that. What's one thing that you think leaders can do after listening to this to really get better at retaining, especially their new hires in particular?

Cara Silletto:
Yeah, I would say the one key is, communicate your expectations because, just because you've done something for a long time or the way you were raised was to be punctual and care about the way you look and the way you talk, and the way you work and things like that, other people haven't always been raised with the same type of role models or the same examples, or maybe they worked in other environments where the expectations were just different. So I do find that communicating your expectations often overcome so many gaps. I mean, I remember, at my first job, which was, it was a desk job at a healthcare organization, a healthcare association, actually, and I took off my shoes and walked to the copier barefoot, and I didn't think it was a big deal. We were a carpeted office, right? But there were these other women at work that said, oh, she is so inappropriate and unprofessional, and they were labeling me like crazy. And it took another person who overheard them because, of course, they didn't tell me, no. Another person came to me and said, hey, Cara, I'm pretty sure that people would respect the work you're doing, because you're doing a great job, if you kept your shoes on all day, the whole day.

Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh.

Cara Silletto:
So it was heartbreaking for me to hear. I was so upset to know they were talking about me behind my back and everything, but as soon as the expectations were communicated to me, I changed my behavior. And then I brought in flats, and I could wear those if I needed to, and it really bridged the gap because someone was willing to come communicate that unwritten expectation to me.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah, it was honesty and respect instead of.

Cara Silletto:
Judgment.

Renee Thompson:
This is my world, judging you, gossiping about you, mocking. They may have mocked you for all you know, instead of, because I have so many stories where I've said, If somebody would have told me the first time, Hey, Renee, I'm not sure you're aware of this, but blah, blah, I would have said, oh my gosh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that that was an expectation. And guess I didn't think of it really in that way, but as a leader, it's making sure that you're clear on certain expectations. You can't sit there for two weeks and go through every single thing. But what's most important, especially in your department and how you run your department, the patients you care for, the clients you see, just to make sure that some of those, these are the most important and layer that maybe start with a few of those critical, yes, you have to wear shoes in the office.

Cara Silletto:
In healthcare, that's an easy one. That's in the regulations.

Renee Thompson:
My sister, Tina, she's a nurse. Her shoes have never been in the inside of her house. They have always stayed in the garage. She has never walked in her house with her shoes on. And actually, I don't think any of her scrubs ever walked into the house either, because she would strip in the garage before she would walk in, so. Well, thank you for that, Cara. We're going to wrap up. I have two questions, I always ask this of our guests. How do you stay up to date? You know, I'm a voracious reader, and it's books, and it's articles, and it's online programs, like how do you stay up to date to ensure that you're staying relevant with your expertise related to retention?

Cara Silletto:
Yeah, so I'm constantly reading LinkedIn updates and articles, and I subscribe to a lot of reports that come out around workforce and retention and culture and whatnot. So I am always reading those kind of things, but I also decided to start these workforce exchange calls, and a lot of my clients and friends and followers, they get on these calls, and we'll have a topic every six weeks, I think is when we meet, and then I listen to them tell me what's going on with that. So maybe it is about onboarding. What are they doing? What are they not doing? You know, remember during the pandemic when we had these calls, one person would say, well, who's doing sign-on bonuses? And then six months later, well sign-on bonuses aren't working anymore. What about this? What about that? You know, so that really helps me keep up to date with what's going on this quarter, this month, right now. Even if something worked 6 months ago or 12 months ago, but it's not working now or vice versa, I think just staying in tune with my market and with my own clients and prospects and friends and followers, that has been really, really helpful for me to keep my finger on the pulse of what's going on.

Renee Thompson:
It's like a nice balance of what's the evidence? What does the research show? You're reading these reports, I'm sure Gallup is on your list. But then, you know, I always say, but you have to talk to the people who are living and breathing it right now, that nice balance. So I love that because it's what I do, too. I talk to clients all the time. I talk to healthcare leaders almost every single day, and I'm always reading what's happening out there so, to your point, that we stay relevant, too, because we want to help as many leaders as we can.

Cara Silletto:
Exactly.

Renee Thompson:
And I always get asked by leaders, do I have any book recommendations for them? So if somebody's a new leader other than your book, is there a book that you would recommend that every single leader should read?

Cara Silletto:
Oh, my goodness, so many. Well, a new book, I'm going to plug one of our friends, Joe Mull, just came out with a great book called Employality. Get it? Employality. And what's interesting is it's not as much about employee loyalty as it is about employer loyalty. So spoiler alert there, but yeah, that one is absolutely fabulous. And there are just, I really think it's important to focus on emotional intelligence and empathy and listening and communication, so there's lots of books out there in that space as well to just really understand folks. And one key to your bookshelf, don't read books from authors that look like you only, right? So make sure that you're diversifying your authors of what you're pulling in and see different things. There's a lot of young people that are authors now, so go read some of the books of some of the Gen Z and millennials themselves of how they feel about things, or just don't be afraid to pick up a book that has a different perspective than what you think. And if the first few pages you don't agree, keep reading.

Renee Thompson:
Yes, when you get that, I don't know if this is, keep pushing through that because you will get to the point where you gain a different perspective. And I couldn't agree with you more. Love Joe's book, have read it, it's one of my top ten now recommended books that every leader should read, and you'll find it if you're listening right now, we'll have a link to Joe's book in our show notes, and we will also have a link to Cara's book. And I do have to admit this, when I got your book, Cara, and this is what I do for all books, I first go through and I look at the table of contents and I'm scanning and I'm scanning and I see this, do not start here. Like, ooh, page 105. And I get to 105 and it says, okay, do not start here, and Cara writes, if you skipped right to this section thinking you already know why people are leaving, stop and go back and read it from the beginning. It was cracking me up. I'm like, guilty. I did that. So, yes, read it from the beginning. So, Cara, as we officially wrap up, can you tell us where can people connect with you? Where can they get your book? What would you recommend if a leader really resonated with what you said and wants to stay connected?

Cara Silletto:
Absolutely. So, I am the only Cara Silletto on LinkedIn, so I'm very easy to find. And our website, my company is Magnet Culture. Our website is WeReduceTurnover.com. And if you need any training programs for your leaders, that's what we specialize in of focusing on reducing turnover by making those leaders more effective in their roles. So if you need any programs around training and development for your leadership, that's where I would go, is WeReduceTurnover.com and reach out anytime. If you've got questions or best practices you want to share or challenges you want to talk through, I would love to hear from you.

Renee Thompson:
Wonderful. And we'll have all of Cara's information in the show notes so that you can easily access her LinkedIn profile, you can get her copy of her book, and you can connect with her on her website. So, Cara, I just want to say thank you so much for being here. It's always a good day when I get to spend time with you, whether it's virtually like this or in person. We just saw each other at the National Speakers Association conference just a few weeks ago, and I said to Cara, will you be a guest on my podcast? And she's like, absolutely. I was really excited to have Cara here. And again, retention, we know that this is a big issue, so as a leader, it's really important that you spend some time really learning how you can do a better job creating an environment where your people will stay. So thank you again, Cara.

Cara Silletto:
Thanks. It's been a pleasure.

Renee Thompson:
And for those of you who are on the call, as I always say, until our next coffee chat, be kind, take care, and stay connected. Cheers, Cara.

Cara Silletto:
Cheers!

Renee Thompson:
Thank you for listening to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. If you found these practical strategies helpful, we invite you to click the Subscribe button and tune in every other week. For more information about our show and how we work with healthcare organizations to cultivate and sustain a healthy work culture free from bullying and incivility, visit HealthyWorkforceInstitute.com. Until our next cup of coffee, be kind, take care, and stay connected.

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