EP 75: Unlock The Secrets To Effective Team Building Through Emotional Intelligence

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Renee Thompson:
Plants thrive and grow in a peaceful, nourished environment, right? Well, it's the same with human beings. But what if that environment is not so peaceful? What if it's toxic? Welcome to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. In this podcast, you'll get practical, evidence-based strategies to help you cultivate and sustain a healthy and respectful work culture by tackling an age-old problem in healthcare: bullying and incivility. I am your host, Dr. Renee Thompson.

Renee Thompson:
Hi, everyone! Welcome back to another episode of the Coffee Break podcast. I'm really excited that I actually get to have a coffee chat with someone who I have coffee chats with all the time: Dr. Mitch Kusy. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Thank you. Renee. It's really just a pleasure to be here. I love just chatting with you.

Renee Thompson:
We chat all the time, folks. Things about Mitch. So, Mitch is a member of our Healthy Workforce Institute team. And, Mitch, you've been working with us since, what, 2018?

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Yes, I think it was just before COVID, I think. Yes. So, seven years now.

Renee Thompson:
A few years before COVID. And just to tell you a few other things about Mitch, he is the author of six business books. Okay? One of which I adore. And I've read it cover to cover, I think twice. And it's Why Don't I Work Here Anymore.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Why I Don't Work Here Anymore.

Renee Thompson:
Why I Don't Work Here Anymore. I will make sure we have a link to that in the show notes. Fantastic. He actually has authored hundreds of articles, so I aspire to be Mitch. I have a few books and maybe a dozen or so articles, but he is just such a prolific writer. And actually, Mitch and I co-authored an article together, but he did the lion's share of the writing because he's way.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
No, I didn't. I just make it look pretty.

Renee Thompson:
I love that. He's involved as a professor in the PhD program at Antioch University and was awarded a Fulbright Scholar in Organization Development. And as I said, Mitch is a valued member of our team. Like when we go into an organization, especially when we're looking at the interprofessional team, Mitch provides such value, especially because he is one of those left brained. He can cite study after study. Anytime anybody says anything like, Oh, well, according to the Thunder study. And I'm like don't you want everybody to get along? And he's always right there with the left brain. And I will tell you: if you have any issues with physicians, physician incivility, Mitch is your guy, because he just has a way of really engaging them in culture work that helps our clients sustain culture change. And the other really special thing about Mitch is that, okay, I've been doing this podcast for over a year and a half. Mitch is our first repeat guest.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Hey, I love it. I love that honor.

Renee Thompson:
You know, we have fireworks. If I was able to do that, I would absolutely do that. And the first episode that Mitch and I recorded together was back in 2023. And we'll make sure that we link that episode in the show notes after this episode airs. But, Mitch, I wanted to start this conversation, and I'll just let the audience know we're going to talk about emotional intelligence. And you might think, emotional intelligence: aren't people talking about, like, we've been talking about this topic for decades? But when we look at a healthy work culture, we have four primary sort of topics. It's you got to address bullying and incivility, you have to develop assertive communication skills, resolve conflict, and develop emotional intelligence. But one of the things that I know that I would like you to share with our audience is that there's been an uptick in interest in this topic in particular. And I first want to ask you, why do you think that is, and to share some of your recent experiences speaking to audiences about emotional intelligence.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Yes. I recall, I was doing a presentation with an organization in Pennsylvania, and when I first started, they had sort of this hum drum kind of look, Oh, emotional intelligence; we know all about it. And I think one of the ways that I swayed them on its importance is by helping them understand the outcomes of this. And we'll talk about that in this podcast today. To your question specifically is what's going on? But one of the things that I believe in healthcare is a primer in this is this notion of inner professionals. And so when we think, when I ask my own clients what comes to mind when you talk about team building and team development, they talk about it within, within, within. However, when I push them more, many of the issues are issues that they're facing between and among different teams, which and we use the term interprofessional. So, one of the things to use your language and uptick in this is: it takes an incredible amount of emotional intelligence, will define it shortly in order to not only build teams within your own team, but understand how to build relationships outside your team. So, that's the first piece. Secondly, when you talked about the research, there was a fabulous research study that was out there. And yeah, and we could get the reference for people but this was the interesting thing. They talked about three types of basic team development in this article. One was team reinforcement. And we all said, Yeah, yeah, we got to reinforce team members. The other two were really counterintuitive. And when I share this with clients, it makes a lot of sense and I'm not doing enough of that. That second one is boundary spanning. How do I span beyond my own team and teach my team how to work with other teams? So that's a second. So, one is boundary reinforcement, boundary spanning. And the third is, and this is also counterintuitive, boundary buffering. So, how do I, at times, buffer my teams and, at times, protect my teams? And so you'd think those are at odds, at least buffering and spanning are at odds with each other. And I say, No, they're not. A good team leader has to do both. You have to teach and model how do I go about and work with other teams, and how, at times, do I need to protect my teams to help them be more effective? So those are some of the things off the top of my head that I'm experiencing, but one from my own practice, and the other is from research.

Renee Thompson:
So this is really fascinating. I wrote a couple of things down. And I know Mitch, you see this too, but there's a lot of us versus them out there right now that really speaks to this whole boundary reinforcing, you know, spanning and buffering, where it's the physicians versus the nurses. It's the day shift versus the night shift. It's this department versus another department. And having this framework and looking at these three components, I think really speaks to that point. And it also speaks to something that you and I know called lateral agility. You know, it's kind of your ability to bob and weave, bob and weave, it's really an athletic term, but it's knowing who your key stakeholders are. And those key stakeholders are not just the people in your sphere and on your team, or in your department, or on your shift or in your role, but it's really expanding. And that's the whole boundary spanning that I think is a really great point. The boundary buffering, I guess there is that point where a leader. So, if you're a leader, yes, you need to be building relationships with other departments. And if you're a nurse leader, other roles. But then, sometimes, you have to be an advocate for your own team too. And I'm going to go back to that all starts with that whole emotional intelligence, that self-awareness. And Mitch, I don't know if you have any comments on that. But then I'd also like to get into let's really clearly define what this means.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Well, you know, this is a great lead-in because we need to understand what emotional intelligence is. It's not just understanding and dealing with emotions. First of all, emotional intelligence. By the way, here's a little tip for everybody. It's EI. It's not EQ. I hear so many people say, EQ, EQ. That's how you measure it. Emotional quotient. Emotional intelligence is EI. And now everyone's saying duh! Of course! EI; where did the q come from? And people don't ask that. So, your viewers got another tip.

Renee Thompson:
Thank you.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
So here's the way I like to define emotional intelligence. It's the ability to understand your emotions and how those impact what you do and how those impact others.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
And there's a second critical piece is that it improves performance and our own personal well-being.

Renee Thompson:
Wow. Just that right there. If, I always think about this: if every single human being in healthcare today has this heightened level of emotional intelligence, which I don't think anybody would need our help.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Well, that's true. I, you know, I am always striving for a little more emotional intelligence, but here was a fascinating study related to this about uric. They found that 95% of people think they have emotional intelligence, and the research actually indicates only 10% to 15% do. There's a disconnect here, and I don't know if you have to put so much stock in 95% versus 10 to 15%, but I think everyone needs to put stock in we're overinflating our own emotional intelligence, and we can all improve. That's the bottom line message.

Renee Thompson:
I agree with you 100% because you know, the culture work that you and I do together, when we are working with a client on implementing one of our consulting initiatives, the first phase is heightened awareness.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
There you go. You're absolutely right.

Renee Thompson:
First one, like you cannot expect anyone to adapt their behavior if they're not even aware their behavior needs to be adapted. And Mitch, you and I both know this, and I'm sure, listeners, if you're watching this right now, you know, there are people you work with right now, who think they're amazing and have no idea that people are avoiding them, doing workarounds because of them. Like they have no sense of self-awareness. I've actually worked with some leaders who have shared with me. They've shown a video recording to a nurse of stomping down the hallway, huffing and puffing, throwing, and that nurse still denied that that was her. I'm like, that's your ponytail.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
There you go. You're absolutely right about that. And that's that whole notion of awareness piece. And we have to help people become more aware of this. And there are very simple strategies that we'll get to those in just a moment. I still think it's important for your viewers to really understand some of the outcomes of people that have good emotional intelligence. There was one study that said, Well, first of all, emotional intelligence is divided into four categories, and the four categories are self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and relationship management. Then, those four are divided into what's called 12 competencies. I'm not going to go over those 12 competencies, but here was the interesting research. These researchers found that those individuals that had at least six of the 12 core competencies had, first of all, they reached their targets, their target goals, 15% more than others, and they had a higher rate of promotion. Not that promotions are everything, but reaching your target goals; it could be individual goals; it could be team goals; it could be organizational goals. Those are really important. And we don't place enough stock in helping people build these goals based upon these 12 factors. And one of the top factors, and you know this, because we teach this in phase one, is this notion of empathy. Empathy is absolutely critical. In fact, they found that those individuals that had a greater sense of empathy were 40% more effective at coaching and decision-making. 40% better! So, just have a little bit of empathy when you're making decisions. A little bit more empathy when you are coaching, you are going to be more effective.

Renee Thompson:
It makes a lot of sense. But to your point earlier, it really does start with self-awareness. I love the whole self-awareness into self-managing, self-management. Then, it's the social component. So, I know some people who maybe are very self-aware, they're just not really good in social settings. They struggle in social settings, and in healthcare, it is a social setting and working with them. But I hadn't really thought about the whole empathy playing such a significant role in performance. But when you take a step back, it absolutely makes sense. I am curious, Mitch. I'd love to get your input. People can have a lot of self-awareness, like people can show up and say, Yes, I know sometimes I can come across as intimidating; sometimes I can come across as condescending, or I can come across as nitpicky. That's step one. But I also see sometimes those same people have a hard time managing their response, especially under stressful situations. So, I'm really curious what you've seen related to this, going from self-awareness, which we know is step one, to self-management.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Here's a little strategy that I found effective for both personal awareness about this. When someone says, Well, I know I'm this, I know I'm this. And the question would be, where have you improved on this in the past 30 days? And you don't want to come across, I got you there. And as someone with empathy, before they say thi\s, would say something like, You know, I've had a similar problem, or I had another problem that's not the same as this, but something I'm working on. And one of the things that I found effective is I'm asking people around me that I trust to give me feedback on how well I'm doing. I let them know this is what I'm trying to improve on. And then this person has empathy. I might wonder, do you think this might work for you because it seems that you want to change this? So you have that casual kind of discussion with the individual where put yourself first. I understand because I'm struggling with some stuff as well. The example that you gave is someone that they have a hard time in social situations. I know I have a hard time initiating meetings, and one of the things that I'm trying to do is the following. So, when I'm doing it well, you have my permission to tell me I've done a really good job on this. So, you're cuing them, You're working on this.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah, I think it's spot on, and I see it going both ways. So, I keep thinking of that frontline manager who finally decides to have an honest conversation with one of their employees about their behavior. And let's say this person comes across as very intimidating and condescending, and you, as the manager, acting with empathy, has that honest conversation with, you know, I'm not sure you realize this, but sometimes you can come across this way, and then you give them specifics, and this is affecting how the team communicates with each other too, right? What's the negative impact? And then I think what you're saying, Mitch, is be willing to share, you know, I had, something I was working on that maybe I wasn't being honest with people that I wouldn't talk directly to them; I would go and complain about them behind their back. And so this is what I did to try to make sure. And I love the whole where have you improved on this, and say the last month. So, you're the manager to share a personal situation where there was something that you became aware of, maybe it was yourself, or maybe somebody brought it to your attention, and that was something that you decided you were going to work on and how you did. Is that what you're saying?

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Exactly. In fact, there's some research on this from Kouzes and Posner, and they call it modeling. So, in this example that you just gave, the leader might say, and obviously, it has to be authentic, but the leader might say something like, If you recall, a couple of months ago, I was having some difficulty: I was interrupting people at our team meeting. And this is the leader of the meeting. And I shared that with individuals and I asked for feedback. Let me know when I'm doing it: after the meeting; and then let me know when I've improved. So, I'm sort of asking you the same kind of thing that you at least consider this because we all have areas of improvement, and I just provide an example where it was difficult for me, but I really did improve in this.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah, I think that would be better received by most people. Not all people, because you and I both know well they can get defensive. But it's not that it softens the conversation, but it comes from a place of, Look, I'm not perfect, and there are things that I'm working on. This is something I'd like you to work on, and I want to support you.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
You know, what's interesting about what you just said? It's not going to work with all people. One thing when I'm working with clients, and I say, I give you a number of strategies, and I can guarantee none of these strategies is going to work with everybody. So, if you have the premise that's not going to work with this person, then you try something else, and it could be: you've done everything you can; you've talked with a colleague in a non-gossiping kind of way. How can I help this person? You really want to find this out. And ultimately, you have to be able to say, I've done what I can. And then performance management kicks in if you're a leader.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. There are a lot of leaders who really try. Once they decide that they have to have an honest conversation with someone, they have a hard time holding them accountable. It all starts with the having that first honest conversation. Because again, it's going to go back to self-awareness: they might not even realize they show up that way. They might not even realize that you have people in your office complaining about them every day that they work. So, it has to start there having an honest conversation. But then you can do your due diligence, do all the right things, and they still might not respond. And sometimes, and tell me if you agree, Mitch, they may not be capable of adapting their behavior, but you have to at least give them a chance.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Exactly. In the study that I had done several years ago with 900 leaders in the study on toxic behaviors, one of the things that we discovered that's right on with what you just shared, Renee, is that individuals, many toxic individuals, and we know the definition. I still use your fabulous definition. I wish I had a dime every time I've said this. It's targeted, it's harmful, and it's repeated. So, targeted, harmful, repeated. And often, the truly toxic individuals, who are on the scale of narcissism, they're clueless about the impact of their behavior on others. And they have this defensiveness like, I'm the only one who has seen this behavior. I'm the only one who has the guts to say something. If you're the only one, that's a red flag. Low emotional intelligence.

Renee Thompson:
I've shared this many times. I'm sure that you've heard me say this. When you confront an individual, really for the first time, there are three typical responses. The first one is, Oh my goodness, I had no idea I was coming across that way. I don't want to be perceived this way. And you know, will you help me? Oh, I love this.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
That's a gift. That's a gift.

Renee Thompson:
That's a gift. Then the next group, you know, I don't know that you can help them. They may have issues. They may have mental health issues, abuse issues. There might be something going on in their life. I know that you can't help them on your own. They may need some type of external professional help. The third category; these are people who are not willing to accept any responsibility at all. Blame everyone else. Zero self-awareness. The problem is you don't work with these people. You, as we say, therapeutically extract them. Okay? Because there's nothing that you can do to get them to see how their behavior is impacting team performance, relationships, and ultimately, patient outcomes. Now, we hear this all the time. And you alluded to this earlier on where emotional intelligence, like why are we talking about this? This is so old. People see emotional intelligence as a soft skill. So, I'd like you to reinforce why this is actually an essential skill because I'm going to give you a little kudos. When you did that presentation to that large group, okay, in Pennsylvania, they were a little hesitant that you said ,at first, but let me tell you, you knocked it out of the park because they were so engaged; they were so interactive with you. It's like they couldn't get enough because you presented it in a way that made sens,e and it made it an essential skill, not a soft skill.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
So let me answer that. Thank you for that compliment. It was a great group. They were so energetic after the first five minutes. And the way I hooked them in is by presenting the evidence. So, let me share some additional events. I gave you some already for your viewers. First of all, emotional intelligence, according to the research, number of studies, is two times more important than technical intelligence. And technical intelligence is what you're doing on the job or your IQ. All right? So emotional intelligence is two times better. Emotional intelligence accounts for 90% of the promotions over IQ. 90%! And among 2600 hiring managers, 71% valued emotional intelligence over IQ. Now, they're not going to say, I valued emotional intelligence. But they're looking at such things as how does that person relate to each other when they are being greeted by the receptionist? Is the receptionist reporting that they treated them in a respectful way or condescending way? So all these things matter, and as I shared earlier, 15% more effective in reaching the target goals that they're working on. So, it's a heart to back to your question, it's a hard skill. It's not a soft skill.

Renee Thompson:
It is not. And it's unfortunate. We have study after study, you shared a few of them, study after study that shows the incredible impact positive or negative emotional intelligence has in the workplace, and on culture, and on outcomes. And so, Mitch, I'd like to shift gears a little bit. And I really want to focus on, you know, we're all about practical strategies. So, if we have a leader who is listening right now, what are some ways that they can start working on building their own emotional intelligence? And then I'm going to ask you to shift. And what can they do to help develop their team's emotional intelligence?

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
First of all, one of the top ways to build one's own emotional intelligence is look at how you ask questions of others. I wrote an article years ago, and I got so much positive feedback and the title of the article, let me see if I can remember it: Engaging Executives in Strategic Conversations. And I have a little template for how you engage them in conversations. And I found out, lo and behold, it's not just executives how we engage people in conversations. So, let me give you some don'ts. So, back to your question. All right. One is: don't ask the legal question. Anyone who's an attorney, nothing against you, but the legal question would be, Wouldn't you agree with? That is a non empathic, non socially aware question. Because you're wanting people to agree with you, and you really don't want their opinion. Another is what I call the pinpoint question. Don't you really think? Really, why are you asking that? Another is the closed-ended question. Do you really want to pursue it in that way? These are questions that you can actually change around. Let me do the change around. One is: How might you go about this? Open-ended. What has happened when you've tried this before? What might you do to have a more positive outcome? So look at how you frame your questions 'cause the bottom line here is: you're framing your question by because you want someone to respond and think like you do. Stop.

Renee Thompson:
Oh, I hadn't even thought of it from that perspective, because my first thought was, okay, to help somebody develop their own emotional intelligence is asking for feedback. Tell me what I'm doing well. Tell me what I need to work on. But this is a different approach. It's paying attention to how you're asking questions. Are you asking questions just to sort of get people to conform to what you think is right?

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Exactly.

Renee Thompson:
Inviting them into a conversation. And this is something that I've also learned over the years. I may have an opinion about something as the CEO of my company. Okay? Like I think we should do it this way. But I've learned, Mitch, that I'm not always right. But I come across in my mind like, I know how we should do this. And instead, I've learned to just ask, you know what? Here's what I'd like to accomplish. I'd really like your input on how we do that exactly. And when I've done that, sometimes people come up with way more brilliant ideas than I could come up with, and it's just a better way to, it's that empathy; it's that team building; it's inviting people into a conversation, which I think all goes under that umbrella of emotional intelligence.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Yeah, there's a premise in organizational change, which is our business. And when I say organizational change, it could be team change. When we engage people earlier on in the discussion, no matter what we want to do, we want to change our norms, what we want to do is develop a better strategy, when we engage people earlier on, you're going to have a better result. And sometimes leaders say, Well, you know what? I have some things that I need to do. We'll share that. Here are two or the three things that I believe that we need to do to change the way we do work around here. Let's put those aside right now. I'd like to hear from the rest of you of what you think. And then you put them all together. And this is where the leader is incredibly emotionally intelligent; when the leader then says, You know what? This was better than what I came up with. But if it isn't, and there's a couple of things there and they're equally as good as yours, I say to the leader, If it's equal, go with theirs. And then the group may say, Hey, I like that one too. So, let's make that decision together.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah, I think that's very wise for a leader. It's almost acting with humility coming into that conversation. And they may have, like I do, a prescribed these are the things we need to work on. But instead of just kind of giving your list of, I'm going to say demands, even though they're not really demands, but then getting input from your team. Early on, especially early on that you want to work on something, there's an improvement that you want to make, but bring them in right from the beginning.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
The other one related to that, since you brought up this notion of decision-making. So, one powerful decision making is give me input. Another powerful decision-making is consensus. And many leaders that are not, don't have a high emotional intelligence misconstrue consensus with agreement. And it's about support. And so I say: Here are three ways for an emotionally intelligent leader to improve consensus. First of all, let everyone know it's about support so you can actually not agree and still be in consensus. Second, this is the kicker: put a time parameter around consensus. What leaders tell me is, It goes on too long. I can't do consensus. Yes, you can. Put a time parameter. We're going to be in consensus over the next ten minutes, over the next two weeks, whatever it is. And here's probably the most important. If we can't reach consensus within that time period, here's how the decision is going to be made. You let people know this upfront. We're going to go with majority rule. The leader's going to make the decision. The person most passionate about that will make the decision. And the reason that, according to the research consensus is more powerful than, let's say, majority rule, majority rule has a tendency to polarize a group into winners and losers, and you want to try to avoid that. So, the emotionally intelligent leader understands this decision-making parameter. And as when we started today, those that have greater emotional intelligence have 40% more power in decision making.

Renee Thompson:
What you just said with consensus is so powerful. I am thinking. It brought me back to some of these committees that I've been on. You'll spend three months' worth of committee meetings to confirm the purpose of the meeting or confirm these three things. I'm like, Oh my gosh, can somebody just make a decision? But I think it goes back to the leader not establishing that sort of criteria. This is what consensus looks like, this is the time frame, and this is who will make the decision. If we can't come to, you know, we get to the point where we don't have full consensus, who's going to make that decision?

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Okay. Pay attention, everyone. If you're on a committee right now, do this.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Yes. And here's a strategy I tell my clients, Blame it on Mitch. So, I would just attend to this podcast. And Mitch told us that we should be defining consensus up front. So, now you're putting your emotional intelligence hat on. I'm not being critical of this committee, but this was really insightful. Could we have a five-minute discussion on how long consensus is going to go on? Because Mitch said we should put a time parameter around it. And if consensus can't be achieved, and I don't believe we've ever talked about this, Mitch said that we should have that defined how it's going to be, how the decision will be made if consensus isn't arrived at. So, blame it on Mitch.

Renee Thompson:
That would be such a game changer, I think, within the hospital setting. Professional governance. I used to be a member of a diabetes committee. And honestly, we would spend meeting after meeting, discussing and haggling over wordsmithing things that we had on our strategic plan. But I keep thinking of how much time is wasted on that if we would have had consensus conversation right from the beginning, we could have avoided a lot of that. So, thank you. I'm going to blame you too.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Blame me. That's what I say. It's actually really interesting because I say this to so many people, not just blame Mitch, but I attended this training program and I came up with this insight. I'd like to share this insight with others and get your view on this. You know what? You're a socially aware, emotionally intelligent leader.

Renee Thompson:
You're bringing up another really great point. I tell leaders all the time. When they attend any of our webinars, okay? When we're doing any workshops, keynote presentations, doing the consulting, if you're a leader and you've been exposed to that, oh my gosh, use it as an opportunity. Go back to your staff to say, I just listened to this webinar. I just attended this workshop, and this is what I learned. And I'll just give a specific example. Maybe you've never had honest conversations with your staff before because you didn't know how. You were way too uncomfortable. Okay? You weren't sure it's really your responsibility. Whatever the reason, no judgment here. But now that you know that, yes, you are responsible, and how to have that conversation, why not use that and say, Look, I have not had an honest conversation with you in the past. I just learned that that's not being the best leader that I can be, and I'm working on this. And so I'm going to have an honest conversation with you. I just attended this. This is what I learned. And you can use that for anything. Any one of you who are attending a conference, you listen to a podcast, it's going back to your team and saying, I just learned this, and I wanted to share it with you.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
That's brilliant, Renee. And a tag off that is, if you're the leader and you're running a team meeting and you know someone has attended a seminar or they went to a podcast, you talked to them ahead of time and say, Hey, could you give us 1 or 2 tips of insights that you learned from this? Would you be willing to take 2 to 3 minutes at a team meeting? Now, you've created this greater sense of social awareness about the impact of learning.

Renee Thompson:
So, I'm writing this name down. So, I want to make sure we put it in the show notes. I follow this person, his name is Jim Kwik, and he's all about brain science and learning. And he talks specifically about this. The best way for you to learn is, let's say you listen to a podcast; it's for you to then explain what you learned to someone else verbally. If you read an article, it's to share what you learned in that article to someone else. So, you're a leader, and you're listening to this, and you go to an event, a lecture, a session somewhere, you listen to a podcast, you read a book, share that with somebody on your team, and absolutely have your team do the same. Actually, Mitch, we were just talking about this today. As part of our consulting work, we identify employees who step into a team champion role. And one of the managers we were talking with, she said she was trying to figure out how to engage her champions. And I said, Oh, here's a way. When they attend the team champion meetings, we do meetings with them every month, ask them to present two minutes, something that they learned at that meeting. Ask every single one of them.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Really? You know what's interesting about this? Just I'm going back now 40 years before I was in healthcare, I was head of executive development for American Express, and I used to share with my team this quote that I think I'm pretty sure I invented it. To be a leader is to teach. If you're not teaching, you're not leading.

Renee Thompson:
Oh, we need to put that on a bumper sticker.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
I know. To be a leader is to teach. If you're not teaching, you're not leading. We would say this all the time to each other. This is such a powerful method. When someone comes in, and they even own it, they say, I just learned something new, I'm excited about this. Or I learned something new, and I actually disagree with this, and I want to talk with the team about this. That's learning.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah. That's beautiful. And I think we have so many opportunities. And if I want to tie this back into emotional intelligence, oh my gosh, if you're listening to this, share this with your team. Say I was listening to a podcast and Mitch and Renee were talking about emotional intelligence and how it starts with awareness. But then there's that element of empathy. And I love the whole boundary. You know, we've been spending buffering. Like I am into that. And so Mitch, okay. Because you and I have had very long conversations times there over a martini and a glass of wine, you know, after working with a client. But as we wrap up, can you give our leaders maybe one tip to help their teams become more emotionally intelligent?

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Yes. And I'm going to actually give two of their very quick. One is, it sort of some journaling. Quick, for the next week, jot down some areas where you have excelled at in emotional intelligence, those 12 areas that I shared with and you could read the research of Goleman and others for this, or Google it to find those 12 areas. And here's one of the 12 competencies I want to do better at. And here's how I'm going to ask other people to give me feedback on this. So, that's one strategy. The second is to relate that you are doing this on yourself and invite others to do a similar thing on them, and then keep it open-ended, keep it very casual. I'm really interested in what you discover. I have an open door. Let me know.

Renee Thompson:
Yeah, I think that's a really great advice, and I love approaching it from a this is something that I'm working on because you and I both know we say this to our clients all the time. We all have something to work on. And when you spin it that way, it's not a judgment. You know, we don't demonize anyone. You tend to then take a look at that whole us versus them. And this helps to address that too. Like we all need to be working on something. And what is that, and how can I support you? And then ask yourself, how have I grown in this area over this last month? So, Mitch, I really want to thank you for your time again today. I could talk to you all day.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
I could keep talking and talking too.

Renee Thompson:
So, Mitch, people want to connect with you. What's the best way?

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
Well, probably through Healthy Workforce Institute. And you could give that to them later; the email address for Healthy Workforce Institute. I'm always delighted to talk with anyone about this. It's an area that people think they know a lot about, and then once they get into the nitty gritty, they think there's some things I can still learn about this.

Renee Thompson:
Absolutely. So, we will put Mitch's email address in the show notes along with his LinkedIn profile. I'm going to add a link to Mitch's book, I should say books; many. And I referenced Jim Kwik. His content is super helpful. I get an email from him like once or twice a week. It is always one of the ones that actually save and read over the weekends, because it's all about learning and brain. And then Mitch, if you can find that article that you mentioned that talks about the boundaries.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
I'll send it to you and you could put it up. It's an academic article. I gave you the everyone the top three. But it's fascinating. So, I'll send you the reference to that because it's protected. It's not in, what is it, the open source. Yeah, open source.

Renee Thompson:
Well, and you did exactly what Jim Kwik recommends. You took an article that's probably a little complicated. And you taught us something from that article. See, that?

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
And now someone's going to go want to read this article.

Renee Thompson:
They are going to want to read this article because I know that I learned something. I want to go to the source because I know that there's probably more goodies there. So, Mitch, I want to thank you again for being here. It's always a good day when I get to spend some time with you. So, thank you again for sharing your expertise with us.

Dr. Mitch Kusy:
You're most welcome.

Renee Thompson:
Thank you. I want to thank all of you who either are watching right now or who are listening. We know that you have important work to do, and that your lives are very busy. And the fact that you've carved out time to spend with us, tells me that you're on the journey to cultivating a healthy work culture. If you like this podcast, if you could please rate it, give us a review, and share it with someone who might need to listen to this today. That would be awesome! Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time.

Renee Thompson:
Thank you for listening to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. If you found this podcast helpful, we invite you to click the Subscribe button and tune in every week. For more information about our show and how we work with healthcare organizations to cultivate and sustain a healthy work culture free from bullying and incivility, visit us at HealthyWorkforceInstitute.com. Until our next cup of coffee, be kind, take care, and stay connected.

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