EP 68: Bringing Core Values to Life: Strategies for Engaging Healthcare Teams

CB_68 – Dr. Anne Gross: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

CB_68 – Dr. Anne Gross: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Plants thrive and grow in a peaceful, nourished environment, right? Well, it's the same with human beings. But what if that environment is not so peaceful? What if it's toxic? Welcome to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. In this podcast, you'll get practical, evidence-based strategies to help you cultivate and sustain a healthy and respectful work culture by tackling an age-old problem in healthcare. Bullying and incivility. I am your host, Dr. Renee Thompson.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Hi, everyone! Welcome back to another episode of the Coffee Break podcast. Really excited for you to be here today because, you know, every now and then you meet one of those extraordinary leaders. And I happen to be fortunate enough to meet Dr. Anne Gross, who is the senior vice president of patient care services and the chief nursing officer at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. We met, it wasn't quite a year ago, right, Anne?

Dr. Anne Gross:
About that, yes.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah. But, you know, I remember the first conversation I had with you and I thought, wow, this woman is amazing because she was so committed, so focused, so determined to get her leaders the help that they needed to cultivate a healthy work culture. So, Anne, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Anne Gross:
Thank you, Renee. It's a pleasure to be here. I've been looking forward to it. So, thanks for having me.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Well, I know you're very busy, and actually, get some time with you to record this podcast. I was really excited, so thank you. I want to tell you a little bit more about Anne. Nationally, gosh, she has done so much as far as cancer treatment. So, she's been involved in the Oncology Nurses Society, the National Cancer Center Network, the American Society of Clinical Oncology, and the National Cancer Institute Comprehensive Cancer Center Nurse Executive Group. She's also consulted to organizations around the globe and serves on several national boards and committees, and is a fellow with the American Academy of Nursing. You've just done extraordinary work in this field, work that's much needed, so thank you for that. And, you know, I was really thinking about what do we want to talk about today because there's so much we could talk about. One of the things that you actually shared with me is your commitment to making your mission, vision, and your core values something that your employees really embrace, that, you know, like how do you hold them accountable for speaking and living and breathing, especially your core values. And, you know, I looked at your core values compassion, respect, impact, excellence, discovery, equity, and inclusion. So, how do you actually engage your entire workforce in embracing those core values and living them every day?

Dr. Anne Gross:
Sure. I'm happy to talk about that. Those core values are our institutional core values. And then what we've done in our Department of Nursing patient care services over the last several years is to take those core values and write about them. Like, what do they mean to us as staff and leaders in nursing and patient care services? And to your point, like how do we uphold those values that are held across our institution, but we, uniquely in the roles that we have, have ways that we would live out those core values. And like you said, I think we all believe on my team that the only reason to have these core values if you're not going to live them, if they live on a piece of paper somewhere, they really don't have any meaning. And so it's been a journey, I have to say, sort of looking at them, trying to make them our own as leaders and then to communicate. What does that mean to our employees? And it's, you know, it's evolved over time. Like right now, as I welcome every new cohort of employees in nursing and patient care services, every month we have new employee orientation. And I talk about our core values and that these are both the expectations around people's behavior and their commitment to being an employee in the institution, but also how, you know, so for take, for example, compassion and respect. That is a core value that, as we talk about it, it's certainly, you know, as nurses and clinicians in our department, it's compassion and respect for our patients, but it's also compassion and Compassion and respect for each other. And so I talk about them, and we all talk about them as these are really core to who we are as a department and as an organization. Our equity and inclusion commitments, if you think about it. Well, what does that mean? You know, we have a, we've made a commitment that we want our practice environment to be one where every staff person feels a sense of belonging. Well, you can't feel a sense of belonging if you don't have if you don't feel a sense of compassion and respect in your environment. So they really are some sort of knitted together. And we make them real with real life examples of how we work through particular projects or issues or challenges that we face. But it is, I would say, you know, you're never fully arrived, but it's an evolution and a process, and we're very committed to it because it sort of grounds you and everything.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Right, it does. And I love, I mean love, love what you said earlier when you said compassion and respect. What does that mean to you? And there's something that I have been exploring. Okay, because, you know, I read this somewhere, and I'm like, oh, I really like this because I'm always looking for those practical strategies and ways to convey commitment to things like compassion and respect. Look like. Because especially with respect, what respect looks like to you might be different than what it looks like to me. Respect to me might be I get the schedule that I want. Okay. When respect to you might be people communicating with you with honesty and respect. But I read this somewhere where you take something like a core value, and we'll do equity and inclusion. And then you, you ask them what does this mean to me. And then you also ask them this second layered question. How do we know when we see it? How do we know when we don't see it? So it's like equity and inclusion means that we always do these things and we never do those things. And it really helps make it, takes it from the walls in your hospital on a piece of paper to write to that level of that, each individual employee. And then in the department, that could be a whole activity that they do. Taking a look just at the core values, what it looks like, what it doesn't look like. And that's, you know, how I see we can even make it more real because you're right. It's not easy. You have to commit to it. And you will always have people who don't really embrace them. And sometimes that's obvious. And then you may need to therapeutically extract some people, but other times it's not obvious. And so how do you sort of keep that, especially at the department level with your frontline managers, really helping them to embrace his core values and how that shows up every day? And so let's talk a little bit about your leadership team and how you're empowering your leadership team to really address disruptive behaviors, retain their best employees, reduce turnover, all those things that I know you're doing a great job with.

Dr. Anne Gross:
Well, I would say it is, again, as we try to ground everything in our core values and create an environment of authenticity. In other words, we don't. No one has. None of us have all the answers. None of us really, you know, understand everything about each other. We all come from different backgrounds. We have different experiences. We bring different, different challenges to the workplace every day. And I think what we have been doing and trying to do and frankly, working with your team, Renee, and helping each other just develop some expertise and comfort in using some really basic tools around communication, you know, authentically. You know, we've all been in these places in our careers where something happens, and you kind of cringe at some conversation that occurs, and you don't know what to do with it, and you just do nothing. And that's as from the leadership perspective, what we've been talking about as leaders is, you know, kind of our responsibility to uphold this culture that we value so much in our organization. And you can't do that without confronting situations that veer off of what you're committed to if whether it's a compassionate interaction or an inclusive activity. And so it sounds easy, but as we all know, it's challenging without some real tools in your toolbox to just, you know, look at a situation, not dismiss it because it's uncomfortable, but think about, okay, well, what's the tool I have, right, to have this conversation? And what I often do is, you know, I try, and we all are trying to kind of name the behavior in the moment, like, gee, and maybe not so much publicly in the middle of a staff meeting or something like that. But afterward, like, gee, when you said that to me, it felt a little disrespectful, right? Frankly. And then, you know, in a spirit of assuming best intentions and all that, giving people some space and the benefit of the doubt, but not letting it go. And I think that we don't, I don't think I learned those skills in nursing school, maybe others did. But we, the more we learn that and own it, as we as leaders in a staff, really people, we all work together. It's not just a leadership competency or what we would hope, and responsibility is that we all, we all own a piece of this work environment, this culture, and that if we want to preserve it, we have to be part of calling out when things are not exactly going along with what we uphold. And I think that's another way of making the values real is, you know, using them as that touchstone and then identifying behaviors not just when they go wrong, but the behaviors that are, wow, that was just such an amazing, meaningful way. You manage that situation with your colleague, you know, and such a compassionate interaction or, you know, and so naming the positive as well as when we kind of, you know, which we all can do, veer off of our best selves to get back on track.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah. Oh my gosh, you said so many wonderful things I want to go back to, many times, we're uncomfortable addressing situations, especially in the moment, because we don't know what to do. And, you know, it stems from this place of we're actually designed as human beings to avoid pain while confronting someone, especially in the moment when maybe we've had a history of really difficult situations with someone. You know, it's painful. So what do we do? As you said, we do nothing. You know, we use silence as a strategy. And what we were able to do with your leaders is give them those tools, give them permission that. Yes, even though this nurse has been there for 30 years and is your most clinically competent nurse, if they are behaving in a way that's dysfunctional, disrespectful, I'm giving you permission to say something to them and to name their behavior. And so with that, they now have more confidence that they can actually address these behaviors. And you said something else that reminded me of a conversation I had with a consulting. We're consulting in a couple of organizations right now, and we have monthly meetings with the whole team, you know, the whole leadership team, physicians, providers, HR, everyone. And we always start with wins. You know, what wins? What progress have you made? And sometimes it's crickets at first. But then, as we go through this process, they start sharing. And one of the things that they shared yesterday was they're noticing that their employees, their team members, when any of their coworkers are acting out in a way that's negative or complaining or being rude or, you know, whatever. They're actually saying, that doesn't sound like a healthy workforce to me. And they're actually using it as sort of a non-threatening awareness that, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. We don't we don't act like that here. And it just, it takes time, as you said. And it's not perfect, but you've been able to really equip your leaders so that they now have the confidence. But, and I'm curious what prompted you to recognize that. You know what? We're at the point right now that our leaders need help, and they need help beyond what we can provide for them, because I know a lot of people who are listening to this are probably in the same situation.

Dr. Anne Gross:
Yeah. So, you know, it's a great question. And I would have to say it's no one thing. It was no one thing. But I would say certainly think about where we are in healthcare now. We've emerged from the pandemic. We're in a nursing shortage. We have how many generations in the workforce right now? I think it's like 4 or 5. And each generation has different things about their work that they value. So there's more desire for flexibility. Other groups want just are really committed to that, being sure they can find meaning in their work. There are others that want a whole lot of balance, work-life balance. You know that I look back and I think, wow, you know, I could learn from that. I need that. Absolutely. But so I think that it was no one thing. But there I think in our organization, which we've been very fortunate to be able to have resources to invest in our practice environments, invest in our employees. It just didn't feel it felt like here we are coming out of this pandemic, people have different expectations about how they want to come back to work. We have to figure out a way to have the conversations according to our core values. We have to be inclusive of all kinds of points of view those that want to stay remote, those that want to come back, you know. So it was things like that. How do we come together, holding on to our mission? We're all here for the mission and the vision of what we can be and what we aspire to be. But doing so, you know, by keeping true to these core values. And I felt a lot of my leaders and I even felt it myself, frankly, to be, you know, have so much diversity of thought. And we're working also in the organization around increasing just the diversity of the workforce, which is, of course, ultimately brings a much richer environment and sense of possibility. But it also requires skills in new ways of being curious and open rather than threatened and distancing yourself from things you don't know or people's ideas that you don't understand. So I think it was somewhat all of those things that coming together and, you know, a general sort of, I don't know whether I would say morale issues, but just the trying to make sense of what we had all been through over those years of the pandemic and the stress that we all were under, and the way we all showed up as nurses was just so amazing. But at the same time, it was exhausting. And, you know, we tend to ourselves and honor that, but and go forward because there's still, you know, we go forward. We're coming out of this pandemic and a whole lot of people need our care that delayed care for all those years. So it's just a lot. And I felt like we just needed some support. And I remember we connected just a year ago, but I, many years ago, attended a conference that you gave in Boston, just on my own for my own development. And I never forgot it and had, you know, read your books and so on. So it just seemed like the right time for us.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Well, and we've had a great experience with your leaders, and again, getting that feedback from them that they now have the have the tools. Like I love it when people say we have the tools now in our toolbox so that they know how to address disruptive behaviors. Not every single behavior, but most of them. And that I love when I hear they have the confidence. And it's nice to know that their organization, and especially you and your role and are committed to developing them, are committed to providing them with the resources because I believe in this whole sort of push-and-pull philosophy of development. So the organization, again, my philosophy, you need to push this to them however you want your leaders to be your team to be. You want them to show up with, you know, I love even the core value of discovery and impact and excellence. Well, you can't just assume people know how to be excellent, how you know what discovery is, but so you need to push that to them. And that is providing them with content and education and training and all those things. But they need to pull it too. They can't just rely on you for everything. And the strongest leaders I've seen are leaders who, or I'd say the most successful leaders who understand that their organization is pushing them to content and helping them develop, providing them with opportunities. But then they're also pulling it. And a lot of the conversations I've had with your leaders, like I see they access our resources, they're in there on their own. You're not sending them an email saying, hey, make sure you check this out. They're doing it on their own, which is wonderful. And I know you've done a lot of work with interdisciplinary teams, especially in cancer care. So I'd like to shift our conversation a little bit about how to actually engage the entire team, your entire workforce, in retaining your best people. And, you know, reducing this turnover that we're seeing, you know, right now. So, how do you do that with your whole team?

Dr. Anne Gross:
Yeah, another great question, another, and another one of these things that doesn't happen overnight. But we often say around here that cancer care is a team sport. And, you know, we really believe that no one of us doctor, nurse, social worker, pharmacist, none of us do it alone. It's every piece of what? Every staff person, from the individuals that park our patients' cars to, you know, the most world-renowned scientists that we have here in the hospital. Everyone has a piece, an important piece to add to that whole patient experience. So we, over the last, I would say, 20 years or so, I've been working with the same chief medical officer, and he and I worked together before we were both in our current roles, but we decided that we were going to do work specific work on interdisciplinary team building. And, you know, You can imagine a lot of people are like teamwork, formal team training, like working in teams our whole careers. But anyway, we somehow got them to engage and went through again some, you know, simple tools around thinking about, you know, you don't always think when you're in a busy clinical environment, like, what's the impact of what I'm doing right now, right down the line or upstream for those that are waiting for me to do something. And so we got people together to talk about what were the things that they really needed and wanted from the other discipline in order to provide the best care. And it was things like that that we did, and it was so interesting because the first time we we've done iterations of it over the years, different refreshers and so on. But the very first time we did it was, we did a pre and post-testing, and our teams, one of the impacts, and this is what kept us continuing to refresh this work, was that an unanticipated benefit was all the teams felt much happier about delivering care with each other and our patients. Our patient data around we ask a question on our patient engagement data at all. That's a continuous every month, you know, surveys that go out. We have a question that is looks for the cohesiveness of the team. And it's and says, you know, my team worked together to deliver my care. Those scores went way up. It was an unintended consequence of this work. So I think it's just, you know, you think about how much time we as, whatever the discipline is spending in that environment. We're all there for the same reason. We want to hold that patient and carry them through their cancer experience, giving the most expert, compassionate care we can provide. And so we're all there for the same thing, right? We just need to make sure that we are communicating well. A lot of it's about communication information that the others need. It's a matter of respect, of course. And, you know, people don't always realize it unless you can stop for a moment and take in other's experience. You sometimes miss how you're being perceived by someone else. So, in some ways, it was creating some space, some very simple tools for teams to talk about how they care for patients. And, you know, we continue to try to do that. I guess it's been going like a year and a half ago now. We took a road trip. Our chief operating officer, chief medical officer, and myself listening tour around all of, to all of our clinical areas. Okay, we're coming out of the pandemic. It was right before we started working with your group, Renee, with you and the team, but what are the things coming out of the pandemic? Your top three things that we could do to make this practice environment better. And I think it's just any ways like that that you're continuing to listen to staff and invest in whatever way. And it isn't always something that costs money. You know, it's like we need to rearrange this system or that system, and just to convey that investment and employees and investment in the environment, because of course, the, our staff, faculty, etc. have all the answers of what they need to make the environment better. We don't need to do go any farther than asking them. And so, that, I think, those are just things that we also try to do again as leaders, to uphold our values.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
You know, I shared this for the first time yesterday during a meeting with one of my clients. I read an article in the Harvard Business Review. It's like my favorite magazine, non-nursing magazine, that, they show that when leaders took survey results and shared them with their teams, identified those areas that were they scored low, and asked their teams for input on what they wanted to work on and then worked on them, they had a 30% increase retention rate. and I'm thinking about your listening tour, okay, because I'm like, okay. There's evidence to support that. Okay. How can you apply that to something like okay, you're listening tours? What do you need? And then you gather information and then they see that you're actively working on it. I think that's the piece. Yeah. They need to know that you're working on it. And so that's.

Dr. Anne Gross:
Because you've heard it from them, they told you this. This is what we're doing, you know, to close that loop because it connect the dots. Because I find also that people don't always realize, oh, well, this is happening on this unit because we told so and so that we needed it or wanted it or whatever, you know, just sort of close that loop. That's really interesting on retention, you know, and I think, as we all know, there was a lot of turnover during the pandemic, and we've historically had very, very low turnover and so on. But we suffered like everybody else during the pandemic, people that decided to retire early or young clinicians, nurses, and others that, you know, just weren't going to take the risk for their families and at home and didn't want to work during the pandemic. So coming out of that and we have come out of that, but I think it is our strategy anyway, is to just continuously try to listen to people and then, you know, you got to be authentic again. You know, we can't meet everybody's great idea. There are things that, but we can, you know, we can explain if we can't, why we can get back to people. I think that part about closing the loop, coming back and told us you wanted this. We can't go all the way with that. But this is what we can do. And, you know, make progress like that.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
There's an activity that I have facilitated many times, and I encourage a lot of our clients to do this, where you get together with your team, and you know, I love putting easel paper on the wall, you know, with the sticky backs, you give them all post-it notes, and you ask them this question, what's one thing if we can make this one thing better, or if we can solve this one problem? You know, you can phrase it however you want. It would make everything else easier. And you have them come up with their one thing, and then you post them all on the easel paper, and then you start collating them into a list. So most people said, you know, they want, maybe their one thing is to make the process of getting stop medications from pharmacy easier. Okay. Maybe their one thing is how you onboard new people, or it doesn't matter. It's like whatever they say. Then you make that list, you collate it, and then you go down the lis,t and you ask, do we have any control over this? Yes or no? If it's no, the electronic health record that you have or the system that you have no control over, that process is like, no, we're not going to do that. So then you really get down to maybe 5 to 10 things, and then you ask them, okay, which one of these do you want to work on first? Yeah. And then you work on them.

Dr. Anne Gross:
Then you work on them. Yeah.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
And what you're doing with your interdisciplinary teams and, you know, helping them to learn together, communicate, it's all that collaborative, you know, kind of problem solving issue resolution. But then also, you know, so it translates both in patient care, but then also how the teams function together and having them come together in that way is so powerful. Because the first time I heard this, I'm sure everybody's heard this by now. This example, the first time I heard this was at a, I was still working full time, and I was in a meeting, and one of our critical care, intensivists shared, you know, if you wanted to create an all-star basketball team, you would not send your forward to forward school, your center to center school. You know, your guard-to-guard school and then have them come together for the first time to play in the all-star game. But that's exactly what we do in healthcare. Physicians go to med school, nurses go to nursing school. You know, pharmacists go to pharmacy school. But we're all expected to play well together, and it doesn't happen, you know, on its own. You have to bring them together. And the best way to do that is bring them together and have them learn together. So kudos to you, Anne, for doing this.

Dr. Anne Gross:
One of the things we are looking forward to the future is we're building a big new 300-bed cancer hospital, and we also built a new simulation center. And so our physician leader in medical training and education. We're working with him, and we want a plan like interdisciplinary training and teaching in the SIM center, which I think I'm really excited about. We have not done that. Orienting new people, you know, clinicians together, training them in how we manage certain kinds of patient challenges and issues. And so we're looking forward to that. That's an idea that's on the horizon for the next year or two.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, that's exciting, very exciting and needed. I see it as one of those critical needs. We can no longer silo all of the people who are working in healthcare right now, especially now when our resources are limited, acuity is higher. You know, patient family demands are higher. So, how do we come together as and really see ourselves as a team?

Dr. Anne Gross:
Yeah. Agree 100%.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Well, okay. As we wrap up, let's say we have some leaders who are listening to this, and I'm like, you are where they want to be. Okay, you have made so much progress and really cultivating a healthier work culture. And let's say what resonated with them was our conversation about core values. And maybe they don't have anything like that. They just have them on the wall right now or on a piece of paper. What would you recommend sort of as a practical way that they can start really living and breathing their core values?

Dr. Anne Gross:
Well, I guess what I would say is just that start somewhere, and do some brainstorming either with your team, and do it yourself. I love having someone come and facilitate brainstorming sessions like that or because then I can sit back and be part of it and listen. And it's something like that. If you're going to think about as a department and identify your core values, I think all the leaders need to be sitting and thinking about it. So if you can get somebody to facilitate just identifying and, you know, there's a lot out there in the literature too and about, you know, different organizations and sometimes the words can be very similar. But I think it's more about, you know, as we've been talking about, is like taking that, okay. What does it mean in our organization to make an impact? What would that look like here? And that's why, and I'm certainly happy to share with anybody anything like of our work that would be helpful. But we have those core values. And then we have a writing underneath each one of them of what it means to us. And then out of that, of course, you know, there are all the things that we do. We have a strategic plan that we have developed that is really aligned with our priorities and our core values. And then from there we make our annual goals. So it kind of all fits together. And I would say, have we had this all along? No, no, we've built it over years. And I think the best thing is just to start somewhere and like you say, probably a good place to start would be to just have that exercise. Well, what are we? What do we stand for here, and what do we value? Yeah.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Now, I think that's incredibly powerful, and you're right. It's so simple. It's just asking the questions. I love just asking people on your team. What does compassion mean to you? What does respect mean to you? What does impact mean to you? Because it forces them to think instead of just that wrote, okay, here are our core values, which I guarantee if you went to every single employee in your organization and asked, what are our core values? I'd say at least half of them wouldn't be able to articulate them.

Dr. Anne Gross:
Great, I agree.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
And I'm being generous, I think.

Dr. Anne Gross:
No, I think that's right. But you know, and that's the opportunity to keep surfacing them. We did an exercise last month with our Patient Family Advisory Council and said to ask them, you know, we are committed to, and we talk about this in our core values around our excellence, like we're committed to excellence for us means we're committed to relationship-based care, patient-centered care, etc. We ask the patients and family members, what does that mean? Do you experience that here? And what we did this a phenomenal conversation with them. And it's just, that's, to me, it's part of that openness to hearing what others have to say. And, you know, there were great things that they communicated. And there were some places where they said, well, you know, we don't always feel like in this kind of a transition or handoff, like sometimes we've felt lost going through that part of, you know, and so okay, that's an area we need to focus.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
So yeah, you know, you said something that reminded me of something new that we're doing on my team. So we just actually revised our core values, and we're having a retreat. Actually, when this airs, we'll be having the retreat in a few days. But one of the activities that we're going to do is we have our core values, and then we're going to do the whole, what does it always look like with the never look like for each, but something that we're doing at our weekly meetings, and we have a new COO, and she's the one that brought this. So, she shows them on the screen a list of our core values and what they mean. And then she asks someone to identify one of the core values and read it, and then pick somebody on the team who's demonstrated that.

Dr. Anne Gross:
Oh.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
And let me tell you, my team wasn't all that happy doing this because you kind of put them on the spot. And, of course, I went first a couple of times. But there's science behind this. The more you can talk about your core values, the more you verbalize them, the more you identify who on your team and give a shout out to someone who actually demonstrated that core value, that's how you weave them into the very fabric of your organization. So, I'm loving this whole conversation about core values. And it was funny because when I was prepping for this conversation, I really thought we would talk more about addressing disruptive behaviors and all these other things. But this whole conversation, especially about core values, I think is foundational and can be transformational to really help you to improve the practice environment and create a healthier work culture, so, and I cannot thank you enough for, of course, being here, but also for your dedication. You've been involved in leadership for such a long time. And it's not just leadership at Dana-Farber. It's beyond cancer care. And honestly, as a cancer survivor myself, I truly appreciate the good work that you and your entire team are doing. And just really, I'm grateful that I've met you, that I've gotten to work with you and know you as a friend.

Dr. Anne Gross:
Well, Renee, thank you. Thanks for having me. And I think I would be remiss if I didn't say on behalf of all my team. As they all know, I'm doing this podcast, that we have really valued our partnership with you. And, you know, this journey as nurse leaders, like, there's so many of us out there that like, it's not like we're not all unique. We're dealing with the same things and to have ways to connect around what we learn and what works and what doesn't work is a privilege. So, it was great to be with you today. I'm so glad to do these podcasts because they're so they're really informative. I've enjoyed them and and seeing other colleagues on them. So yes, thank you for having me.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
I know it's kind of fun because then I get I'm almost forced to spend extra time with the people who I've been either working with or who I've just met or heard of because some of my guests I've never met before. And for me, it's always learning from other people. It's one of my I don't know if I call it a habit or something, that I always try to learn something from someone and then incorporate those things that I find very meaningful, but, and if somebody wants to connect with you, what's the best way of doing that?

Dr. Anne Gross:
I think through my LinkedIn profile or my email, that I think your team has certainly happy to connect with anyone that would like to.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Excellent. And we'll have Anne's LinkedIn profile email address in the show notes. And I'll also drop in that Harvard Business Review article that talks about that whole 30% improved retention if you're sharing survey results and acting on them. And so we always want to give you some additional resources that you can take back and add to your toolbox of goodies. So again, thank you, Anne, and thank all of you who are either listening or watching. We know you have busy lives, but the fact that you're carving out some of your precious time to spend with us. I'm truly, truly grateful. Thanks, everyone. Take care.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Thank you for listening to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. If you found this podcast helpful, we invite you to click the subscribe button and tune in every week. For more information about our show and how we work with healthcare organizations to cultivate and sustain a healthy work culture free from bullying and incivility, visit us at HealthyWorkforceInstitute.com. Until our next cup of coffee, be kind, take care, and stay connected.

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