EP 56: Fostering Nurse Retention: Civility, Mentorship, and Well-Being Initiatives

CB_56. Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

CB_56. Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Plants thrive and grow in a peaceful, nourished environment, right? Well, it's the same with human beings. But what if that environment is not so peaceful? What if it's toxic? Welcome to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. In this podcast, you'll get practical, evidence-based strategies to help you cultivate and sustain a healthy and respectful work culture by tackling an age-old problem in healthcare: bullying and incivility. I am your host, Dr. Renee Thompson.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Hi everyone! Welcome back to another episode of the Coffee Break podcast. Wherever you are, I hope you're in a really great place. Today on Coffee Break, I'm excited to chat with Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin, CNO and senior VP of Patient Care Services at Hunterdon Health. Mary Jo, welcome to the show.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Hi! It's great to be here.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh. I've been looking forward to this. Our mutual friend Helene Burns recommended you to be a guest on my show. And I'm like, oh my gosh, yes, I'd love to have a chit-chat with Mary Jo, so really excited for excited for our chat.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Likewise.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
So I'll tell you a little bit more about Mary Jo, and then we'll really get into it. So Mary Jo, her organization, Hunterdon Health, was one of the first hospitals in New Jersey to become part of the Nursing Work Environments Staffing Council. Okay, that's the N W E S C council; we'll talk a little bit more about that as we continue. Mary Jo has been passionate about creating a work environment where her nurses can thrive, and yes, we want our nurses to thrive. This passion started back in 2006 when she was on the advisory committee for the New Jersey Hospital Association, Transforming Care at the bedside. And I also read that you started nursing as an LPN.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
That is correct.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh. So, just tell our listeners, what made you decide to get into nursing? And then, once you were an LPN, what made you decide, you know what, I want to be an RN?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So, when I graduated high school, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. My parents didn't believe in going to school just to go to school. They felt like you needed to select a major. So I did go to the local community college and was in a, just a basic class, you know, to figure out what major that I would look to go into, and there were these women, and they were studying anatomy and physiology, and I thought it was fascinating. So I came home and told my parents that I wanted to be a nurse because they were nursing majors. And they said to me, you never spoke about nursing. And, you know, growing up, you know, wasn't something that I had a passion for. They felt that women could finally do something other than teaching and nursing those, you know, traditional. So we're talking back in the 80s and they didn't want me to, you know, waste a lot of money and time. So, my mother recommended going to the LPN program at the Technical Institute in the county. It was $500 for the program, and I think they felt that I would wind up not liking it, not wasting a lot of money, and sort of putting it to bed. Well, the exact opposite happened. I loved the clinical. I loved the learning piece of it. I wound up getting the bedside nurse award. You know, it's a year program and started at Hunterdon. You know, as an LPN at 19 years old, I enjoyed immensely working at the bedside, working with patients, and had some great mentors. I'm sure later on in the podcast, we'll talk about mentorship and how important it is, but they really pushed me to go back to school. They saw things in me and invested in me and said, you need to go back to school and get your RN. So I immediately enrolled in the associate degree program, went back, and obtained my RN at the local county college. Then they began pushing me, said, you need to go to school, you need to get your bachelor's degree. So I did that, and they felt that I had leadership qualities. You know, a lot of times we say, is it nature or nurture? I personally believe it's a little of both. And went back to school then to get my master's degree so I could go into leadership, a leadership position where I felt that I could really make a difference in the work environments that nurses work in, having first-hand knowledge and being a lifelong learner. During the pandemic, I went back to school to obtain my doctorate so I could accomplish my ultimate dream of being the chief nursing officer here at Hunterdon. So that's my story.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh, all right. This is fascinating. Your parents are like, yeah, she's never mentioned nursing, and she wants to be a nurse. Okay, we'll see. This is another, you know, fad or something that, you know, she read somewhere, you know. Oh, yeah. She saw people taking a class. We'll just say, you know, go to this LPN program. That's so amazing. $500, right? And here you are, the chief nursing officer at an amazing hospital. And so, are your parents still with us?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So they are, actually, my mother's going to be … next month, and we're surprising her, so hopefully, it doesn't air before, she doesn't hear this. My children are coming in. My siblings are coming with their children, my nieces and nephews. So my parents are so proud of me. My dad actually, when I call, he answers. What's up, doc? You know, and they brag to all of their friends and neighbors. They're always asking for business cards and, you know, different things. So, you know, I reflect back. I wonder if part of it was to just prove them wrong, right? And just keep going back to school. But whatever the motivation was, that could be a small piece of it. It was mostly my love and passion for patients, for patient care, and for working in an environment that nurses could provide that ultimate quality care for our patients, whether it's something, as you know, sometimes it's not as grandiose as bringing a baby into this world or helping someone exit the world gracefully. All those little moments in between that you help people, you can't put a price tag on it. And honestly, if I had to do it all over again, I'd always be a nurse.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh, that just speaks to me on so many different levels. The whole parent piece. You know, I'm fortunate that I still have my parents, too. And it's funny, I only have one phone. It's my cell phone. It's my work phone. It's the same phone that my parents. I always say it's the same, you know, phone that my parents call me, but, you know, I am not available, message is, Hi, you've reached Dr. Renee Thompson, and every now and then, my dad will leave me a message, Dr. Renee Thompson, and he's very similar. You know, my parents are to yours, so proud of who I am, and what I've done, and the work that I'm doing, especially right now. Although I will tell you, when I decided to quit a really great job to start my own company, my dad said, so you're not going to be a nurse anymore. And it is funny how people, well, not even funny. It's not funny. I get that little in my stomach when somebody says, oh, so you used to be a nurse. I'm like, what? I am still a nurse, okay? And yeah, I always, I always said I was meant to be a nurse, even though I didn't know it until I was probably a little later in my schooling. So, I went to college right out of high school. I was actually pre-med. I was going to be an OB/GYN, and then life got in the way and I thought, okay, I'll be a labor and delivery nurse. But when I really think about what nursing is all about, I was meant to be a nurse. And, you know, some people end up here for different reasons. They start on different paths. But when you get here, you know it. So I love your story. Now, this makes a lot of sense why you're so passionate about healthy work environments and helping your nurses to actually thrive. And you know, you've been a nurse for, what, 36 years?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
That's correct.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Gosh, you've seen it all. So we mentioned earlier about a mentorship program. But I first want to start, and we're going to talk about that. But I want to talk about this council, your nursing staff and council. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about this and what successes you've seen as a result of this council? Because you know this, we have a committee, a council for everything, and sometimes we don't always see successes from them. So I'm really curious to know about this council and what you've seen as a result.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Absolutely. So the NWESC Council was an alternative to a staffing ratio, legislation that was in New Jersey and to mandate ratios, nurse to patient ratios. So when we looked at it and thought about it, you know, one size fits all patients aren't widgets. And when I talked to my staff, you know, their concerns really wasn't how many patients they have. It's the support and the environment, right? And where they practice and all of those, you know, healthcare is complicated, right? And staffing is complicated. So that's only a small piece of it. So NWESC was created from ONL-NJ, which is the Organization of Nurse Leaders in New Jersey. We got together some nurse leaders, and we established a think tank. I thought, how could we, you know, really make an alternative to a ratio bill that we felt really wasn't going to meet the needs of our patients or our nurses? So we came up with a program, and as you mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, that my hospital was lucky enough to be selected to be one of the pilot hospitals to kick this off. The council is 51% staff and 49% management. It's co-led by the chief nursing officer, and then a staff nurse, and the council meets monthly, and we talk about what are those challenges in the environment, what are the things that the staff is struggling with, the nursing staff is struggling with, and what are the things that we can make improvements to improve the environment, ultimately improve the care that we give, And, you know, keep people at the bedside. So, as you mentioned, I've been here 36 years. I'm lucky enough that I have strong relationships with my staff. And they know to your point earlier that I've grown up through the ranks, so I get their pain points. I became a nurse in the 80s during the Aids epidemic, you know, and then, obviously, the pandemic was a leader during the pandemic. So I get what they went through, right? And we went through it all together. So our committee is a very engaged committee. My leaders and my nurses, we strategize, we come up with solutions. Some work sometimes, you know, we try things that work and sometimes they don't. But, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expect different outcomes. So, one of the first things that came up was incivility. And that was near and dear to my heart because in the 80s, when I started as a nurse, nurses eat their young. People, you know, I was this new cute young nurse, not many younger people were going into nursing as a major at that time because, as I mentioned earlier, finally, women could do things other than teaching and nursing, and I wasn't embraced the way in the beginning at the bedside that you would want to. So I had to, I'm a pretty strong personality, had to find the people that I knew were going to be nice and mentor me, And fortunately, you know, I was able to do that and succeed. So when the staff started telling me there was a little bit of that going on, it like really sat in my gut, and I said, this is unacceptable. And some of it really was. Sometimes our physician providers, you know, sometimes it was other disciplines. And the thing that would upset me the most is if it was nurse to nurse, right? So the team of nurses came up with this Dr. Noble. So when somebody was doing something that was not kind and maybe not civil, it's uncomfortable, especially for a new, new nurse, to say something, right, you're intimidated. So we came up with paging Dr. Noble. Dr. Noble, so anytime somebody acted again, you know, not civil, not kind. We use that to just pause, take a step back and for people to realize, oh, maybe I didn't mean to come off that way. And I apparently I did, right? And to just level set. So when we rolled out Dr. Noble, it was to the nursing staff, to our physician colleagues, and to the entire organization to have that as our code word, that you're not being kind and civil, and literally, it kind of took that pressure off, especially the younger nurses that aren't as confident and strong to be able to say, you know, you're not being nice without saying you're not being nice.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
You're not being nice, right? Okay. I have to pause for a second because, you know, this is my happy place right now, talking about solutions to, you know, bullying and incivility. When someone does the paging, Dr. Noble, are they just saying that in the moment, or are they actually paging? Because I know our listeners want to know, are you actually getting on those, Sarah something and saying paging Dr. Noble, how is that actually applied?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So they don't physically get on a PA.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
I didn't think so.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So it's just, oh, because you hear overhead pages hospital, paging Dr. Noble just.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Got it.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Stop the conversation and have everybody take a deep breath and realize how you're acting.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yes, we've done that a lot with groups, and we've used code words and a lot of different for a lot of different situations. And what it is, is it's an uncomfortable situation that, without a simple strategy or simple tactic, you will do nothing. Okay, so you give somebody, and I love the code words because everybody knows it. There's no like targeting. It takes some of the burden off of you to, what am I going to say to this person in the moment? I remember we were working with an endoscopy department. Don't ask me why this was their word. I think some people might find the word offensive. However, it was their word. They used the code word hippopotamus. Okay, they would just say hippopotamus. And that was a code to that other person that they were being uncivil or they were acting in a way that's aggressive. I interviewed someone on the podcast and she said their code. It was a phrase: chatter matters. When they would hear negativity or somebody was being rude, they would just walk. Chatter matters. That was more, I think, for the bystander, okay, not the person. So your point is well taken. It almost doesn't matter what code word it is. I think that's so creative, though. You know, the paging Dr. Noble because that's something that you would absolutely hear in a healthcare organization, probably more so than hippopotamus. I'm just thinking, yeah, I don't know that we say hippopotamus all that often, but paging Dr. Noble, definitely. And the fact that, did they come up with this?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
The staff came up with it, and actually they made a depiction of what Dr. Noble looks like, and she looks like Superman. She has a cape and she's got her old-fashioned, you know, nursing cap. And we actually had posters made, you know, to help to communicate what this initiative was around the organization. And they were so passionate about it. And for me, it was easy. I loved that they came up with the solution. They came up with the name; they came up with the drawing. And, you know, then you really get the buy-in from the staff.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
So was it, you said, getting the buy-in from the staff? You and I both know there are some people who will resist everything. And so getting the buy-in. And I'm hoping our listeners understand this isn't a 100% buy-in. But if you can create that sort of groundswell and get the majority, you're golden. That's the goal. So, how is this rolled out? Like, how was it? Did you have a big sort of kickoff? And this is what we're going to do, or is it more, you know, individual department level? How was that done, Mary Jo?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So we did both. We had that big kickoff, and then, at the department level. To your point, there were some nerves. This is stupid. You know, this is parochial childish, right? And the reality is those were the individuals that really were the ones that aren't so kind, right?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Of course.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
And so I think because of the structure of the NWESC Committee and having representation from each department and each unit, and it being 51% staff, nurses, the support, the 49% of that nurse director, that nurse manager, you know that nurse leader, you're able then to just ignore, you know, the 10% that's the naysayers. And then they eventually get on board, right? You really shouldn't waste your time on those individuals.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Thank you.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Because you know you're not going to get anywhere with them. And eventually, they just either succumb or move on, right?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Absolutely. And it's an interesting approach to tackling an issue that does affect staffing. You and I both know that you can recruit all you want, but if you don't create an environment where people feel supported and welcomed and they will leave you, especially this generation, they will leave you, they will go somewhere else. And then, unfortunately, sometimes they find it's the same situation, different building, and then they end up leaving the profession. And that's really sad. And you know, obviously, we don't want that to happen.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
We can't afford to have that happen. We already have a nursing shortage. And you know, even though it wouldn't be right if we didn't have a nursing shortage, you wouldn't want it to happen. But that really compounds the issue that every nurse lost to the profession is significant to perpetuating that nursing shortage that we're experiencing.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, major ripple effect.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Absolutely.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Losing one potentially amazing nurse has not only to our profession but across, you know, the whole continuum of care and looking at our healthcare system and the patients who truly need our support and our care. So, it sounds like this council is doing some amazing things, but I really want to make sure we spend some time on what I know you're passionate about, and that's mentoring. So, can you talk about mentoring and how it really aligns with a healthy, you know, work environment?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Absolutely. So, if you don't mind, I'll tell you my story.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So I was an up and coming nurse leader, my chief nursing officer at the time, Linda Rush. She took me to a meeting for organization nurse leaders. At the time, they were called nurse executives. Then grew and knew that nurses are leaders at any point, whether it's at the bedside, and we want to engage and embrace aspiring nurse leaders. There was about 50 individuals in the room. We all stood up. There was a speaker, and she said, everybody x years or sit down. There were two people standing, myself and another woman, and they said, this is the future of nursing in New Jersey. What are you doing about it? And I remember having this, this visceral feeling like, oh my gosh, don't leave me holding this back, right? Like, this is insanity. And from that was the brainchild of a mentorship program. So, the Organization of Nurse Leaders has a statewide mentorship program. So what we established is we have cohorts. We do one every 18 months. We're on our ninth cohort. You actually go to a workshop. So you learn what's the responsibilities of a mentor and a mentee. And we created a toolkit so that it helps you through the journey. So, you have tangible steps and items to support you from the beginning of the mentorship and the relationship through the whole year. This program has been so successful because we pair mentors and mentees outside of an organization. So it's interesting because we presented at Magnet. Other hospitals across the country are like, aren't you afraid that you're going to be stealing each other's talent by pairing a mentor and mentee? And I said, you know, nursing, we do what's best for the patient, right? And it never occurred to us. So that model then that I spoke about, we use here at Hunterdon. So not only do we have a mentorship program here at Hunterdon, that's a requirement for all our new nurses to establish, you know, a mentor. We have them pick that individual because you don't want to assign somebody, right? Because the relationship should be very natural, right? And not forced, right? And then, in addition, they have the opportunity to be part of the cohorts for the organization of nurse leaders. So they get both, right? They get the opportunity to have a mentor outside of the organization, and then they have the opportunity to have it inside the organization. I think internally, what I've seen that's really helping for, to address, you know, the burnout and really the environment is, some units, you might be the only new nurse, and you're feeling all these things, and you're not sure, is it you, right? And you struggle, and you're afraid maybe to say something? Where's that safe place? Where is that person to go to for support? And by having that mentor that you go to, you start to realize, oh, it's not me, and that person can help you been there, right? They've been there when, you know, struggling with either delegation, they've been there struggling with, you know, maybe it's a physician, you know, that isn't getting the Dr. Noble cue. So I think mentorship is so important. And it goes to what we were talking about with incivility. Because if you establish that culture of mentorship and teaching and supporting, that just flows nicely to creating that environment where your nurses can thrive and feel supported.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
It's the opposite of nurses eating their young.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Exactly.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
I mean, this is fantastic. Okay. I have a couple of questions. First of all, on New Jersey, you all have done some amazing work to really address some of the common challenges that leaders and their teams are facing. There's a lot that you do for advocacy and this staffing council. And now I didn't even realize that it was part of this. The entire state of New Jersey. It's this mentor, you know, mentee, these cohorts. I think it's remarkable if it's part of the cohort; what roles do the mentees and the mentors have? Is this just for leadership in New Jersey? And this, I know in your hospital you have the new nurses, but can you tell us that sort of those dynamics for New Jersey, the state?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Absolutely. So you fill out actually an application to say what you're looking to be mentored in. It might be regulatory. You might say, you know what, I'd really like to learn a little more about some, you know, regulatory. So we find somebody in the state, a nurse that is a regulatory specialist that's willing, you know, to mentor somebody. It might be finance. Somebody identifies. You know what? I'm a little weak in finance. You know I'd like to get stronger in that space. And then we connect that individual with somebody, a nurse that has that financial acumen and experience. A lot of times, it's somebody trying to get to the next level, right? That they want to be mentored by. When I was assistant vice president, I was paired with a CNO because I knew I wanted to be a CNO, even though I was being mentored internally by my own CNO. It's a safer place when you have maybe somebody from the outside as well, right? And you know, I mentioned I grew up here at in Hunterdon. You know, it's good to see things from a different perspective sometimes, right? So like, currently, I am mentoring a nurse. She's a nurse manager that would like to then become eventually a CNO, there'll be a couple steps between that, and she's at a competitive hospital for us, Morristown. I meet with her every month in person. I enjoy every moment. I think I get more or just as much from our scheduled, it's usually, you know, we meet for dinner, or we meet for coffee, similar like this, and we could be meet three hours all of a sudden, realize the time has flown. And, you know, we have an agenda. You have established goals that you want to accomplish in that year, what you want to work on, and it's just it's amazing. It really is. And we've learned from the experience of each cohort that we build on that the mentors get just as much as the mentees and that we all should have a mentor. It doesn't matter where you are in your career, right? I am sitting as a chief nursing officer. I still my chief nursing officer, Linda Rush, that I had mentioned, she still, she's my friend now, but she's still my mentor when sometimes I struggle, and I come home because there's not another chief nursing officer here that I can vent to. My husband will say, Call Linda, get your head straight. You know, and then I have this lifelong person that helps me and understand because they were at that place. So I think it's really important, especially in something that's so complicated as healthcare and being a nurse.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh, you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter where you are in your journey. You could be a brand new nurse. You could be a systems chief nurse executive. Always be looking at the fact that you're viewing all of your decisions, everything that you do through a certain lens; having a mentor who may help you to then change that lens and see things from a different perspective can be that person that you can bounce things off of, who will tell you, tell you straight sometimes. You know, I think maybe you have to show up differently as a leader. You're complaining or maybe venting about these things, but how are you being clear as a leader and how are you showing up is so valuable? I almost, you know, I actually, I have a business coach, okay? I kind of see him as a mentor as well, but he's truly a coach. Oh my gosh, I don't know how I would function without my calls with David because he sets me straight in a kind and loving way and really helps me to process things and see things differently, and without that, I would not be the leader that I am today. So I wish I would have had somebody like that when I was a new nurse and when I was an educator and when I was a frontline manager, and when I worked in quality for a managed care company, like, I didn't even realize that, first of all, that was a thing. You can get a mentor, and I don't think it was as common as it is now. And I don't know, Mary Jo, have you seen that? Sort of mentors have kind of ebbed and flowed. It's, yeah, everybody's having a mentorship program, and then nobody has one. And then they kind of reestablish themselves, I don't know, have you seen that?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
I think a little bit of that I think honestly, like we've evolved, and it's not shameful to ask for help. You know, being vulnerable is okay, right? And so I think that obviously, there's times that we take a couple steps back, but creating that environment to say it's okay to make a mistake, it's okay to need to phone a friend, right? It's okay to have a support person. We all need support people in our lives. Personal, professional, right?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yes.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So I think that we've evolved, you know, as a human race, and we're more open to asking for help and having that person, you know, that you can lend an ear and, you know, really support you.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
I actually think, too, and I'm interested in your opinion, especially this younger generation. They're more willing to ask for help than I think some of us who have been in the game for a really long time and, you know, especially when you're new at something, it's logical that you would need help, but they're asking for it. But sometimes, when you move up the ladder, you have this unrealistic view that people expect you to know it all. And it's probably even more important say it's someone at your level, Mary Jo, that you have that external guide on the side who can really provide you with some insights. But I see benefits from being brand new all the way up through. I've been a nurse for 36 years in the same organization, and now I run, you know, I steer the ship. You know, I fly the plane. It's me. And I know that there is a difference between informal and formal mentorship. So, what you're describing here is formal mentorship. So you have a formal program both through the state of New Jersey and in your organization, right?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Absolutely. And then because you have that, you have that culture, those informal relationships and mentoring occurs. And you're exactly right. This generation, they're used to growing up on team projects, right? And that everybody works together. You know, back when we were in school, that wasn't the way, right, when we were growing up, so they're more apt to ask questions. It's okay, you know, versus we grew up kind of got to tough it out, right? But then, when you're melding these generations together in the workforce that you have to make sure your seasoned nurses are supportive of that culture and that environment. And not saying that, you know, you have to tough it out, right? And that, you know, just because we did it that way doesn't make it right. And so that's probably one of the biggest challenges, I would say, for nurse leaders right now that we're experiencing is that the changes in the generations, and I don't even want to say their work ethic because it's just because we did things a certain way doesn't mean that this generation is wrong, right? And so we all my other chief nursing officers, we all struggle with trying to get our seasoned nurses to not judge, you know, that our newer nurses, they want work-life, they say balance, I say it's work-life effectiveness. You never have balance, right? You never know, and that's okay. It's okay that they put themselves first sometimes. So I think that that is probably, you know, in our NWESC Committee has seasoned nurses and newer nurses. By having this committee, I think that it helps us to be able to work together. And, you know, there are things that we did really well in the past. And then there's things that we are doing really well now, and we need to bridge and merge those generations together and be respectful of one another and not judgmental.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh, gosh. Right there. If you could package that, bottle it up, and give it out, you know, three doses a day, okay? It would solve a lot of issues and really interesting. I interviewed a generations expert. She's not a nurse, but she does a lot of work in healthcare. Her name is Karen McCullough, and she talks specifically about this, the older generations and their judgment of the newer generations, and actually put the link to that podcast in the show notes when this airs. And she described it in this way. And I thought, wow, if we could just help them to shift their mindset from a, they haven't suffered enough, they don't know what it's like. Okay, you have to earn your right to be respected here to a, boy, what can I learn from them that will help me now? Because if you use the lens of they're very different, they approach the work differently. It doesn't mean that I'm right. They're wrong, they're right, I'm wrong. But what can I learn from that generation, or maybe not even generation, but that person, who seems to really understand how to create at least a little bit of balance in their life? And instead of judging it, what can I learn from them to help me with my life? I think it would be a game-changer, game-changer.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I've learned, to slow down from working with these younger nurses to just like, go home. The work's always going to be here, right? And, you know, So enjoy the moments, right? We don't have a crystal ball. We have no long, have no idea how long we're going to be on this planet, right? And we want to make an impact, right? But we have to also take time for ourselves. And that's the other thing, too, I think, with the environment is that we have to take time for ourselves, fill our tank. Otherwise, you do get that burnout, right, and it changes the whole working environment and not for the good.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, because then what we're doing is perpetuating an unhealthy work environment and really great advice. So, Mary Jo, as we start wrapping up, I can imagine there are some people listening right now who have no formal mentorship programs either in their state, you know, in their organization. What would you recommend somebody do if they listen to this or watch this, and it really resonates with them, and they want to initiate something like this in their organization? Or if they're part of a regional, you know, ONL, huge fan of ONL, you know, region states, what would you recommend that they do to start?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So I have to tell you on the website for ONL-NJ, the toolkit is linked there, so you can purchase the toolkit if you're not a member for $100. If you are a member, it's access to you for free. So we literally have had other states because we've presented our mentorship program, utilize the toolkit. We update it with the research. So that's one opportunity. The other opportunity I would say is internally, a lot of organizations have shared governance councils and structure. And you could have your research council, if you have one, exist, you know, work on doing the research for mentorship programs. There are many organizations out there, the Academy of Med Surge, Nurses Critical Care Association; they all have all of the tools and all the steps to be able to, you know, you don't have to create this yourself. It's all out there, right? That's the beauty of the internet, and to be able to have that access.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh, this just reminds me. It was funny, I was having a conversation yesterday about this whole abundance mindset versus scarcity mindset. This is coming from a place of abundance. Here, you are saying we have a toolkit. We've already created it. Go to our site. You can have it. Yeah, if you're a member, it's free, but $100 is nothing. Probably, you know, a month's worth of coffee, okay? But you don't have to reinvent the wheel when someone has done the legwork. So, if you're interested and this is something that you're equally as passionate about, you want your nurses to thrive, too, especially if you're in an executive leadership role. Oh my gosh. Go to the website, and we'll have the link to the ONL New Jersey website in the show notes here. We'll actually link the toolkit so that they can make we try to make it easy for you. Okay. You can just click on it and get access to it. But then, to your point internally, I'm sure you have a research council, a professional governance, some group of human beings who would love to get involved in creating something like this in your organization. So, Mary Jo, I cannot thank you enough for this amazing conversation. I love that we started with your Staffing Council and how do you pronounce the acronym, NWESC?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
NWESC.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
NWESC.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Yeah.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Better than the long … stands for. But how your incivility problem came up and this team actually came up with a solution. I love paging Dr. Noble. Okay, I might have to recommend that to some of my clients, but then how this really morphed into a conversation about the value of mentorship and helping nurses anywhere in, you know, along their journey. It's so incredibly valuable. So, Mary Jo, if people want to connect with you, what's the best way?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
So they can email me directly at [email protected]. So it's M L O U G H L I N @ H H S N J.org.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
And we'll have the link to Mary Jo's email in the show notes. And then also you're on LinkedIn aren't you?

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Absolutely. And I have to tell you, we have our NWESC Committee today. And the thing that we're working on now that came about, which sounds crazy in nursing and healthcare, is we're working on a napping policy.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Thank you.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Yes, we actually just.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Encourage it.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
It's honestly a 12-hour shift. We need people need to take breaks. They need to recharge. We need to support that. And so would love to come back and talk to you about that someday. You know, we're almost having it off the ground. And this was based on the nurses about fatigue going home tired, an increase in car accidents, like literally there's so much out there. And as nurse leaders, and as nurses, we need to support one another to take that break. Close your eyes for a few minutes, go to a quiet place. So, more to come on that.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
This just makes me happy, okay? Because I know the value of napping. I am an expert napper, just so you know, and my, everybody on my team and my family, they know I can rock the ten-minute nap. I can literally put my head down, fall asleep ten minutes, and then I'm great. You know, you get rid of the cobwebs in the brain and to think about the mental strain, you know, nurses and people in healthcare on a daily basis, 12-hour shifts to give them that space just to put their head down for 10, 15 minutes is so valuable, and it's evidence-based.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
Absolutely.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
It is evidence-based. So, okay, all right, pinky promise. I'm going to have you back on the show after you get everything set up with that to talk about napping.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
You got it.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
That is part of a healthy work culture, so. Oh, my God, thank you so much for being here, Mary Jo. I had a great conversation with you and learned a lot from you, as I'm sure our listeners did, too.

Dr. Mary Jo Loughlin:
It's been a pleasure. Thank you for asking me to join.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yes, well, you are welcome. And I just want to thank our listeners today for either listening to this on maybe Apple or Spotify, or if you're watching this on YouTube; we know you're busy, but the fact that you gave up some of your precious time to spend some time with us, I'm truly grateful. And if you like this podcast, if you could, please give us a rating review. We love reviews and then share this with someone who might need to hear this today. So, thank you for everything that you do out there in healthcare. We appreciate you. Take care.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Thank you for listening to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. If you found this podcast helpful, we invite you to click the Subscribe button and tune in every week. For more information about our show and how we work with healthcare organizations to cultivate and sustain a healthy work culture free from bullying and incivility, visit us at HealthyWorkforceInstitute.com. Until our next cup of coffee, be kind, take care, and stay connected.

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