EP 47: Creating a Positive Work Environment

CB_47. Dr. Megan Gillespie: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

CB_47. Dr. Megan Gillespie: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Plants thrive and grow in a peaceful, nourished environment, right? Well, it's the same with human beings. But what if that environment is not so peaceful? What if it's toxic? Welcome to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. In this podcast, you'll get practical, evidence-based strategies to help you cultivate and sustain a healthy and respectful work culture by tackling an age-old problem in healthcare: bullying and incivility. I am your host, Dr. Renee Thompson.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Hi, everyone! Welcome back to another episode of the Coffee Break podcast. Wherever you are, I hope you're in a really good place and that you're having a great week. Today we get to spend some time with Dr. Megan Gillespie, CEO of Sutter Santa Rosa Regional Hospital in Sonoma, California. Megan, welcome to the show.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Hi, Renee, and thank you so much for hosting me this morning.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh, really excited to have this conversation with you because Megan and I have known each other about 6 or 7 years now, and we first met when Megan was the associate CNO at KP Santa Clara, and I was there doing some work. And before I tell you more about Megan, one of the reasons that I knew immediately that Megan was an awesome leader was that the first time I met Megan, we were in a meeting with a lot of other key stakeholders, and people were talking about the issues and culture and all these things, and Megan was quiet. And I actually didn't know that she was the ACNO until after. And it was when Megan and I talked after that, I realized how powerful she is as a leader. It's because she listened to everyone talking. She didn't just react and intervene; she listened, and she processed. And then we had a conversation about, all right, what are the issues and what do we need to do to solve these issues? She just didn't assert herself and talk over everyone. She was one of those leaders who just did such a great job listening to everybody and then coming up with, okay, here are the solutions. I don't know if you remember that, Megan.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
I definitely remember you coming on board, and I remember researching you online and saying, What is Dr. Renee Thompson really going to be able to bring to us? And when I had a chance to meet you and hear your introduction, and Renee has an amazing job of just making it real and bringing real-life experience to the team that is really needing to lean in and needing to think differently about how do we change culture. We did it in such a way that it was easy for people to connect with you early in the process. I remember, one, being so honored at that point in my career with Santa Clara at KP, I had been in a lot of different seats operations nursing, professional practice, and one of the common fundamental themes throughout was how do we take this culture and elevate it? How do we take these amazing people and empower them to bring their best selves to work without all of the distraction that culture can sometimes feel?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, and you did such a great job with that too, not only at Santa Clara, but I know you're doing great things at Sutter Santa Rosa. And I remember working with you, we worked together at Santa Clara for years, and we did Culture Change for years, and you were such an involved leader as an executive. You always had your finger on the pulse of what was happening. And Megan, you weren't afraid to have an uncomfortable conversation with people who needed to hear the truth about their leadership, and you were so good at it. I'm like, okay, yeah, she, Megan is just one of these people that you want as your leader. She, again, she leads with thoughtfulness, intention, and compassion too. Such a great job with that.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Thank you, Renee. I think, back to those earlier days in driving culture change and then later. I think those same tenets of looking at how do we lead, how do we role model the way one, but how do we empower leaders to really focus on the infrastructure that they bring into the culture and the team, and how do we make it easy for people to do the right thing? And it's easy to get caught up in the drama. It's easy to get caught up in incivility, and we've got to equip our leaders with the tools that they need to be set up for success because our main goal as leadership is to mitigate those barriers for people that we are depending on and take care of our patients.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh, my gosh, you're absolutely right, Megan. When I think about you as a leader, and I take a look at your history, your career, and you've been in leadership roles for a really long time, but you're also, because I want to explore that whole infrastructure a little bit more and really get your input on what that really means and what that looks like, but you've, also, you're also a fellow with the American College of Healthcare Executives, which makes total sense now that you're in this CEO role. But you've done so many things, and I think it's because you're so passionate about leadership, growth, and development, not only for yourself because you have really been modeling the way, but for your team. Yeah, let's talk about that whole infrastructure and making sure you're using infrastructure to influence positive, you know, work environments. Tell us a little bit more about what that means.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
I think the first step is we really need to be clear about what's current status. And you referenced me taking a step back and having that observation. That is so critical. And I think part of that comes from my earlier part of my career, 20-plus years ago, that I worked agency for years, many years, in addition to my permanent benefited job. I learned really early on, when you walk into an organization, you can tell within 30 minutes what kind of culture that organization has because it impacts everything. It impacts how the process workflows work or don't work; it impacts how people treat each other, and it impacts how those people treat the patients they're caring for across the board. That was actually also the last straw why I gave up agency nursing. I was also in leadership at that time, but it was the last straw that I said, I can't continue to go into organizations where you're walking in blindfolded, not recognizing what kind of culture you're walking into because it becomes a safety issue. But to get back to your original question, that infrastructure, I think is so critical. And when we look at how do we set leaders up who are often promoted because they're good clinicians but don't have a lot of leadership background, you got to think about that differently and really look at it from a competency lens, but also from what traits are they bringing to the table and how do you bring those strengths out?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Okay, you've done, I think you've done a great job really assessing your leaders and again, having uncomfortable conversations when you need to. But how do you step back and make sure that you're hiring the right leaders, or you have a really good clinician and you want to put them into a leadership role. So, what are the traits that you look for, Megan, in putting somebody into a leadership role?

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Yeah, I think part of it is really understanding who do you have across your existing current status, right? Because you don't want all of the same type of people. Otherwise, you end up with a whole bunch of people that are just going to agree with you, and it's not a good thing to not have problems. We have problems. That means we're moving forward because then we can solve for those. If you're in a place that doesn't have problems, it probably just means people aren't being honest. That's, and they're not sharing those.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
That's right, the line. I think I heard that the worst thing that can happen with, if you're the CEO, is that people aren't telling you the truth.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Yeah, so I think you have to get comfortable with asking the questions: what do we need to be talking about that we're not? What do we need to be talking about, and where and what forum? When we look at leaders, you know, really being comfortable focusing on who are those people that are going to challenge the status quo and who are curious and are focused on how do they continue to improve, not just as individuals, because we have to lead ourselves before we can lead anybody else. And if you don't know how to lead yourself, how are you going to lead a team of very diverse personalities?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Really good point.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Really understanding. What are they passionate about? Do they have a track record of learning and growing and being self-motivated? Because again, one of the key roles of a leader is inspiring the team to come together, to be able to achieve those extraordinary things that you can't achieve as an individual, but also to keep that inspiration and that joy in the work we do, because it's hard work and life is too short not to enjoy it and love what you do. I can train, and we can educate and professionally develop anybody around budget and finance and workflows, but it's really hard to inspire and get somebody to learn how do you be inspiring. If that is not your jam, how do you learn that? It can be learned, but it may be a little bit more difficult.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, it's like the difference between being a manager and administrator of the department and like the management of it and being a leader. They're two different things.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Two different things.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
But you said something that I want to circle back on. You want to have people who can identify that there are issues and be willing to tell you what they are or tell you the truth; you don't want a bunch of yes people because then you're not going to identify the problems or they're, but then they're never going to get solved in this just, you know, cycle. But I remember when I was a frontline manager, and we hired someone who was, can't remember what their title was, but I was the only leader in the department. It was just me. They hired someone that was like an assistant nurse manager, and oh my gosh, Megan, she spent all of her time pointing out all the things that were wrong in that department. And I took it all personally because she, oh my gosh, this is a problem, and now that's a problem, and this is a problem. And that's not what we're talking about here because it was all pointing the fingers and blaming instead of saying, These are the issues that I see; let's display them, maybe prioritize them, and let's start tackling them together because I felt that it was an attack on me personally because I was the director of that department. And yes, you want people to identify when there are issues, but you also want them to do so in a way that is under that umbrella of let's figure this out together. I want to be part of the solution, not just telling you all the things that are wrong. And have you seen that with some people or blaming and other people were like, Okay, it's an issue, let's work on it?

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
You're hitting a hot spot, Renee. It's, yeah, it's easy to be that person who has all the problems, right? And then there's certain people that is part of their identity; they want to be able to complain and focus on the problem. But when you say, Hey, how do we come together on a solution, they may be the person that's backing away, like, not me. So what I've shared with my teams and what I hold myself accountable to is, yes, there's going to be problems, there's going to be challenges; that's why we're here to fix those problems. If there wasn't, if healthcare was perfect, we wouldn't be here, right? It's not. But how do you identify the problem and speak up, but also come with an idea of how do we solve or how do we make it at least a little bit better? I've had the opportunity to practice in a lot of different environments and cultures on the East Coast, in the Midwest, back on the West Coast, and it's all the same. What is the infrastructure? How do you come together as a team to say, Here's the problem. What are we going to do about it? And then how are we going to validate that we're making an impact and that we're being effective? And I think that comes back to the infrastructure.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yep, right there. That is one of your superpowers. Because when we started doing culture work together, I still wasn't clear on my outcomes and how I'm going to collect outcomes, and how are we going to show that we've made an improvement. And you were the one who actually, we had some of your leaders enroll in one of our online courses, and you're the one that came up with a, These are the outcomes we've seen. So the leaders who enrolled in this program, they had higher employee engagement scores, blah, blah blah, compared to these leaders who didn't. And I was like, Oh my gosh. So that's a superpower that you have, is using data, looking at outcomes so that you can actually see are you moving the needle. And I don't know, does it just, does it come natural for you thinking that way? Because it didn't for me originally. I'm all that; oh my gosh, everybody says it's so much better here. Like, I love the qualitative and the right brain feedback, but you're like left brain, let's go. What are the outcomes? I don't know, does it come natural?

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
I think it comes from one of my core values today, and we all have 24 hours in a day. So what I want to know when I'm spending time, effort, energy, fill in the blank, is it effective? Because I can easily fill my day and be busy all day long, but at the end of the day, I want to know did we move the dial? And if we didn't, then I need to change how I'm spending my time. So wherever we can do life hacks, let's do it and make sure that it's effective when we're working hard.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
So I may need to hire you as a coach to help me with that because yeah, I think, and this is, I think, a common issue with leaders; they are so focused on the busyness, the to-do list, or doing these things because I'm going to say it, we've always done it this way. This is just what we do. But to actually take a step back and as you said, at the end of the day, did we move the dial at all, like, how is this effective? And this is something recently as a company we are looking at. We have all these different ways that we work with organizations, and some ways are, you know, major consulting, we're boots on the ground with you, and other ways we have some products and things. So we have the whole spectrum. But we're looking at everything that we offer and asking the question, is this effective? And is this a good use of our time, or do we need to either do something different or do we need to, like they say, kill your darlings like sunset some things? But you are now good at this whole effectiveness thing.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
I think, I want to go back to something you said earlier about what are the outcomes. And I was, I knew it was the right thing to do to invest in healthy work environment. And I knew that needed to change because we had patient outcomes, let's call it what it is, we had employee culture challenges, and we needed to make a change and make it different. But I needed to know what were we going to look at to prove that we were doing that because it doesn't work as an executive to come to the table and say, I like my job better; the team is nicer, right? Let's do this work. That doesn't work. And I would turn somebody away that came to me with that plan, right? What's the return on investment? When we look at what we're spending in healthcare across the US, it's finite dollars, right? It's very slim because whatever we invest, we have to ensure that we can care for our community and continue to grow the programs for access to care. It's a challenge. Across the country, it's a challenge. So when we looked at that, we said, Okay, where do we want to see the impact? We wanted to look at what was our nurse turnover, right? Were we retaining top talent? We wanted to look at what was the engagement of our team? That's an annual survey most people do. As we're improving that engagement, are we keeping people? And then how does that translate to our care experience, our patient experience? And you say it best: how we treat each other transcends to the patient. And I see that. You feel that as a customer, regardless of where you go, you know if the employees are happy to be there or not.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, you're right.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
How do we make that difference for our team, that we are depending on taking care of our patients? And let's face it, eventually us or our family, we need care. I think that's a critical piece.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
And this is a, you're right, it is a critical piece. And when I think about especially the role of the frontline leader, I'm going back to how we originally started talking about them. Some of them were really good clinicians, and now you put them into the role of manager or director, and how, there's such a learning curve in becoming a great leader when they have all of the administrative tasks that they have to do, but then again, lead their people and cultivate a healthy work environment. But then that whole effectiveness piece, how did they know that what they're doing is effective, is it working? And I don't know, Megan, can you share maybe some examples of things that you've worked on with your leaders to help them to figure that out? Like how do I know that what I'm doing is effective beyond the employee engagement and turnover?

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
I think every department needs to be really clear on what their challenges are. Every team department organization, there has to be clarity there, and that's our role as leaders to create that clarity. What are we truly prioritizing? Because to your point, you can't make every single thing a priority. Often, what I see newer leaders focusing on is the finance, because let's face it, that's typically the brand platform, right? How do we fix finance? And that's very objective, right? There's no lying in what those numbers are? Here's the money coming in. Here's the money going out. Easy, it's easy math. Where it gets a little bit more complicated is how does that math become the outcome. And that's where it gets nuanced because finance isn't really the focus. Finance is the outcome when you get people right when you get quality, when you get the experience right; when the focus is on sustainability, you have positive outcomes in finance. And I think that's the most important piece, is helping people come up with what are your key performing indicators for the, your scope of work that you're focusing on. If you're in the emergency department, very basic, right? What's our time in? What's our left without being seen? What to … to doctor? All those basic things. But then, even looking further upstream, when you apply an intervention, is it working, and what's the turnaround time till you start to see that in your metrics? And I think that's where it becomes helpful to have that clarity for our frontline leaders. What are you looking at day in and day out so you can look and say, What am I going to do differently tomorrow? If I improve 0.5%, it'll be better than it was today. And if you do that 30 times, by the time you get to the end of the month, you're making huge change.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
This is so interesting. I actually had a conference, and it was the National Nurses in Business Association. I served as emcee, and then I did the closing end note, and I was talking about the challenges of being an entrepreneur and the risk. And one of the landmines, I said, You've got to be careful you don't step on the landmines, and it was to not know your numbers. So, not knowing your numbers is a landmine. If you're in any type of business or leadership role, okay, and okay, truth be told, this was probably five years into my business, and I was talking to someone who had been in business a lot longer than me, and she said, We're talking about finances. And she says, What's your profit margin? And I said, and I quote, What's a profit margin? I didn't even know. And that's okay because sometimes you don't know what you don't know. But then I realize that I really need to look at this. And we talked about lag versus lead metrics. Megan, finances, your numbers; that's a lag metric, that's a result of the things that you've done. But a lead metric can, is what am I doing? And you said this: what can I do tomorrow? What am I doing every day that's going to affect that number? And that's finances. But you can use that for anything. If you're looking at patient experience, that's a lag metric. But what can you do every day as a lead metric? You're going to round, you're going to, you know, stop it and say hi to your whatever that is. But I don't know that leaders understand that because I know I didn't when I became the leader of my company. They just don't understand.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Yeah. I think it's critical to know your numbers, but it's even more critical to know and understand what's happening day to day and what's being looked at day to day. Do your leaders have the right tools and know what metrics to look at and where to find them? Because let's also face it, it's not always easy to get your metrics depending on what organization you're in.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Very true, very true.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
So how do you make it easy, and how do you look for those easy ways to communicate to the frontline team about what's important to them, and how do you tailor it to the audience? So I think it's that mix. You said something earlier, Renee, about knowing what's happening when you're out and about knowing what you're looking for. It's easy for anybody to go out on a tour and be busy. In the pace of healthcare, there is constantly something to be done. But what is it that we're looking for? When you're going in that room as an executive or as a frontline leader, are you able to assess what's happening with the environment, what's happening with your experience? How do you give that constructive and positive feedback to that person who's taking care of whoever that patient is, and wrap it into one and realize you don't have to do those things in silos?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
It's knowing your numbers, as you said, it's knowing what to focus on. And I think it's also knowing when to ask for help because tell me if you've seen this too: when we get together with a group of leaders, say, frontline leaders, sometimes at these meetings, they almost act like they've got it all together. Oh yes, I've got this and I'm doing that. And I'm thinking, No, you don't, because I just had a conversation with you. But they're so afraid to admit that they don't know something. It's almost like there's this competition that they can't show any vulnerability instead, to say, I don't understand how to do the budget, or I don't understand whatever it is; can somebody help me? Have you seen that too?

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Yes. And let's face it, we've all been there, right? Depending on the psychological safety that's in that room, you may feel like this isn't the audience that I can speak up and say. I've been fortunate enough throughout my career to have really great mentors and also have really great examples of what I never want to replicate because we all have those cells. And the other piece is, how do you build it in so that you catch those instances, right? Because sometimes you're coming into an organization where there's been a long historical culture that you just have to break into step by step. And I think about something that works for me, that I've done in other roles and continued to do and have seen great mentors do, is really being intentional about how you do your rounding. We do senior leader rounding, call it Frontline Fridays. It's also my excuse to wear scrubs and be out on the floor.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, any day you wore scrubs is a good day.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
And it's not just because I want to wear scrubs. It's also because when I go into a patient wrong to check on the environment, check on the patient, see how we're doing, taking care of them if I'm dressed in a suit and heels, it's a very different response patients trying to cover up. They're self-conscious. I'm making them uncomfortable. It's not helpful. It's just a different response because there's no social norms in healthcare. There's just not. But when you go out and have that leader grounding experience, having the prep work done ahead of time before you go out to department, I know, okay, what's their quality, what's their finance, what are all the pillars right now current status where they're at, that helps me ask meaningful questions so we can gear how do we have those conversations with that leader with the front line and help them uncover where they may need help? Because sometimes people don't know where they need help.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah. We had sent out an e-blast to our community, and it was about meaningful recognition, and we asked them to share examples of what your organization is doing to really recognize you all, because this was this one part of our community is for the front line. And we had somebody reach out to us and said, So all of you executives out there, please listen to this. They said it was so meaningful to them that their senior leaders, their executive leaders, it's when they come into their department, and they talk with them, and they ask them questions, and they, and this, it was a nurse. She said, That, to me, makes me feel valued that they're going to they're busy, that they're taking the time to come to our department where we are and meet with us. So all of you senior leaders out there, keep doing those senior leader rounds because you're making a difference, and it's just one way to show your employees that you care about them.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Yeah, I say the flip side of that, and you already took it there with the positive feedback, because that is just as important as identifying where do you need help, where are the barriers. One of the standard pieces in infrastructure that we put in place is formalizing what is thank you note that we write to that leader when we're done. But it also helps to identify what are the best practices that we can lift them up and share as a peer-to-peer coach with the others. This is incredible what you're doing; how do you share that so people don't have to recreate the wheel? So I think there's just so much power in being out on the floors where you're at and having those gemba walks. You tell high reliability was earlier in my career, but that is so important: a lean methodology piece and how you layer that in.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
And to your point, even with all the work that we do, we give people tools, strategies, resources. However, a lot of what we've learned over the years, we learned from other leaders who are doing amazing things in their department, sending the little notes, their staff, and doing something that really helps reinforce a healthy work culture; these leaders need to be sharing that with other people, and when you're rounding, you can capture some of those. But like you said, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. A lot of what we have learned and collected over the years are examples from other people, and we just have the ability now to share that with everyone else. But I'd say anyone who's listening to this right now, if you're dealing with a problem, you're dealing with an issue, someone's already solved that issue. Sometimes, all you have to do is just say, Hey, this is an issue; has anybody dealt with this? And maybe not just issues too, but even how are you recognizing your employees beyond, and we talk about this all the time, beyond giving everybody pizza. What are ways that you're recognizing your employees and in a meaningful way? I'm sure there are a lot of people who are doing pretty amazing things that you don't have to figure it out; somebody else is doing it.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
That's a great point. I think the other piece of that is this goes back so there's no social norms in healthcare. It also becomes very normalized when people are doing amazing things, and we don't pause to celebrate that. There was a theme that came through very clearly when I looked across, how are we doing as a team? What's our team members? The front-line impression of what happens across the hospital what it was missing. And they talk a lot about silos and just not understanding what happens across on the other side of the wall in Department X, and we've been really intentional about breaking that down with professional practice committees and shared governance, and our chief nurse has been working diligently on that here. But even just showcasing little snippets and highlights of videos, what happens in your department, and stars are frontline teams, and they get very creative. So we had one in our OR where they actually were showcasing this is how you move and deal with the Da Vinci robot. This is how we set the room up for the patient coming in. And you can see across the department everybody's look at so and so is modeling how you use the Da Vinci robot in the OR. And it gets them thinking about what are we going to do when it's our time to shoot our video. It's their story. How do we break those walls down and lift that up?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Now, is this, say, a video that everybody in your organization has to do, every department? Or is this just something that some department started, and it's catching on? I'm just curious.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Yeah, so we actually started it. The first one we did was actually our facilities department, our engineers. I know, shocking. And it started because as I was orienting as a new executive, I asked facilities to give me a tour of all the nooks and crannies. I wanted to see our water storage. We are in Northern California and fire is a concern. I wanted to understand all of that piece, and I got a phenomenal tour from our chief engineer. Phenomenal! And realized at that moment I also was responsible for a vineyard. Pretty cool, right?

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Really cool!

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
But the point of that is, him and his team are doing all this incredible work behind the scenes that a lot of our clinicians have no idea how that is. So, at that point, I asked him, I said, do you think we could do a video and really focus on the work that your team does behind the scenes to highlight? Look at all of the sustainability and green efforts that we put in to reduce our emissions, but also look at everything else you guys do. You help oversee the vineyard management and your hospital engineers. That's pretty cool. So that's where it started, and then it flowed from there. So, we have our videos teed up through the end of 2024, and then we'll continue to go into 2025.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
I think that's the coolest thing, because it reminds me when, before it became a nurse, okay, I had a little detour. I worked as a medical assistant, and I did an internship in central Sterile processing for a hospital. I'm telling you people, you have no idea what goes on in central sterile processing. But they are rock stars, and if it weren't for them, every patient would get infected if they had surgery. Okay? But because I spent time with them that I really got to know all the things that they do, that even as a nurse, when I became a nurse, that it's invisible to you. Like you said, the facilities: it's invisible to everyone. But I think, too, once you let them showcase, This is what we do, and you do that, and I love that you're using video for that, I don't know, I think when you look at healthy work culture and cultures where we respect other departments and other roles, and we don't demonize them and blame other roles and departments, I think this creates truly an opportunity to respect other people's work, get to know them even can be a little bit of the beginning of relationship building, but it's also to show them that, you know what? There's no way we can be a strong organization if we continue to maintain our silos. Like you really see that it takes all of us to actually deliver the amazing care. So I'm in love with that. I love that idea. I think it's so awesome. And how many of you were courted so far? Do you know?

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Let's see, it is July. So I want to say we've done at least 6 or 7.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
That's so awesome.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
I think that they are 8.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
And yeah, you said you have others planned for the rest of the year. I see this as something really unique. And if you're all listening right now, why not do the same? Somebody has a great idea and you can actually implement that same great idea. Because again, I think it really helps to break down some of those barriers. All right, Megan, as we start wrapping up, we've talked about a lot of different things. And it's interesting the direction of this conversation; it went in the direction of sort of metrics, know your numbers, what's your ROI, your effectiveness, which I absolutely love. But if there's a leader right now who's listening to this, who's I don't know what a profit margin is, he's kind of I don't know what metrics I should be looking at or I don't know how to assess my effectiveness, what would you recommend for them? What advice would you give them?

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
First, be intentional about who your network is. And that will continue to change. But there are great people that love to help, right? That's one of the best parts of our roles is when you get to help somebody else or when you get to see a leader you've been mentoring continue to rise and have that success. The best thing about what I get to do. Two, I think, get clear. What's your values as a person? What are your values as an organization? How do they intersect, and where? 'Cause you have to be able to lead yourself; you have to have your own routine and your own infrastructure in order to be effective in your role. And then seek that clarity. So, if it's not clear from the person you're reporting to, have the discussion. Here's what I think our goals are. Do they sync up and align with what yours are? Because everything can't be important because then nothing is important.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Wow. I love the whole intentional about your network and that's something that I have, there's no way I would be where I am today if I didn't have a network of people who I could go to and now who come to me for advice, for help. And, but I love that you said you have to be intentional because not everybody is a good person to have in your network, right? There are some people, right? Yeah, I'm not going to ask you for advice because maybe your values are different than mine. And that's the other thing too that is really important for all leaders to get clear about what their values are as a person. Your effectiveness is one of your values. One of my values is kindness. So, obviously, I'm doing this work because it goes against my core value of kindness. But to get really clear on what your values are and then there needs to be an alignment with your organization's values.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
And you can't have 30. No, you can't have 30. You have to have five or less. It's a lot harder than you think than you think it may be.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, it really is. And people create this laundry list of values, but you have to I look at you can't have more than three. The brain loves the number three. You got to come up with, maybe it's like your three core values. And then you have like .. values or sub-core values. But to get really clear and then prioritizing two, you can't do everything. And asking people for help. And that would be go to your boss or your boss's boss to help get some clarification and to help with that priority list. I think is so valuable. Thank you so much, Megan. Oh my gosh. This has been really great. This has been helpful for me because I wrote down the word effectiveness, and I circled it twice because I want to take a look at my role as a leader for this company. And looking at things through that lens of effectiveness, I think, is really critical for success. Megan, oh my gosh, thank you for being here today. Thank you for being willing to carve out time out of your busy day to have a chat with me. I so appreciate you that I'm a huge fan of your work. Thank you for the great work that you're doing, and like I said, for being a good friend and just love the work that we've done together.

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Yeah, you're forever stuck in my network.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're sisters. We're in the sisterhood. Definitely, and I look forward to more amazing things that you're doing out there to make the healthcare a much better place. Thank you!

Dr. Megan Gillespie:
Thank you!

Dr. Renee Thompson:
And thank you to all of you who are either listening or watching. You're busy people, too. And the fact that you took time out of your day to actually listen or watch this podcast tells me that you're on a journey and you want to do what you can do to make your environment healthier. So, thank you for being here, and if you like this podcast, please rate it. Give us a review; we love reviews. And make sure you share it with others. Make sure you share it with maybe another leader who you know might benefit from Megan's and my conversation. So thank you for what you do. Take care, everyone!

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Thank you for listening to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. If you found this podcast helpful, we invite you to click the Subscribe button and tune in every week. For more information about our show and how we work with healthcare organizations to cultivate and sustain a healthy work culture free from bullying and incivility, visit us at HealthyWorkforceInstitute.com. Until our next cup of coffee, be kind, take care, and stay connected.

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