EP 41: The Healing Impact of Meaningful Recognition

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Dr. Renee Thompson:
Plants thrive and grow in a peaceful, nourished environment, right? Well, it's the same with human beings. But what if that environment is not so peaceful? What if it's toxic? Welcome to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. In this podcast, you'll get practical, evidence-based strategies to help you cultivate and sustain a healthy and respectful work culture by tackling an age-old problem in healthcare: bullying and incivility. I am your host, Dr. Renee Thompson.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Hi, everyone! Welcome back to the Coffee Break podcast. Wherever you are right now, whether you're listening or watching, I just hope you're having a really great week. And as this podcast is all about addressing bullying and incivility so that we can cultivate a healthy work culture. However, it's not just about addressing bad behavior; you have to actually cultivate the good behavior. And how we do that, really, the most powerful way is through meaningful recognition. And today, we have a special treat for you. Today, we get to talk to Bonnie Barnes, the co-founder of the DAISY Foundation, who gets meaningful recognition better than anyone else I know. So, Bonnie, welcome to the show.

Bonnie Barnes:
Thank you. Renee, I am so happy to have some time to talk with you and to talk about really elevating all the positive that's going on in healthcare and in nursing.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yes, you are so right. And for those of you who might not know Bonnie, which I would be really surprised. Bonnie and her husband, Mark, founded the DAISY Foundation. And I've gotten to know Bonnie over the years, and what I love about Bonnie and the work that they're doing at DAISY, is that, to your point, Bonnie, there's so much negativity out there right now. Oh my gosh, social media and on all these different apps and people are talking about how terrible it is out there. But you focus on the positive in nursing and the positive impact nurses actually make on patient care. And so this whole valuing meaningful recognition and how that contributes to a healthy positive work culture is so needed right now, like what you're doing at the DAISY Foundation, I believe personally is critical to the future of healthcare, is being able to squash that negativity and shine a light as you always say, on what's right and how to grow what's good in nursing. So just thank you, Bonnie. I'll probably thank you 27,000 times on this, you know, episode, because I'm just so grateful for your work. I would think most of our listeners know who you are, but I bet there are a few who don't. Could you just tell us how you and Mark started the DAISY Foundation? What precipitated you to do something like this? Because I know you were working in marketing, weren't you?

Bonnie Barnes:
Yes, and we had an experience that shone the light on all the right going on in healthcare, but it was a terrible experience. It's just about 25 years ago that Mark's son, Patrick, died of complications of an autoimmune disease, ITP, something we'd never heard of, he contracted. We went to be with him when he first went into the hospital, thinking we would be there for just a couple of days. Actually, when he got sick, I was retired, growing wine grapes in Sonoma Valley. Mark was winding up his career in marketing, and I had spent about 30 years working in marketing, but I was pretty well done with all of that. We went to Texas to be with Patrick and his family when he was in the hospital and never expected that we would then spend the worst eight weeks of our lives in the hospital with him, at the end of which he died. I know so many of your listeners have been around families like ours who have been on an emotional roller coaster, and suddenly, it's over. And now, what do you do? We had to find a way to keep Patrick's very special spirit alive. He was a wonderful guy. 33 years old. He and his wife had just given us our first grandchild six weeks before he got sick. And we wanted to find something to bring us back into the positive, because we've been in a very dark place for two months. And as we got together right after Patrick died and sat with his wife Tina and our brand new grandbaby swinging at the end of the table in a restaurant in Amarillo, Texas, we started talking about our experience and Patrick's nurses. We knew they would be excellent clinically because that's why you go to the hospital is for clinical excellence, right? But we didn't expect that they would be as compassionate and sensitive not only to Patrick, who, by the way, was on a ventilator most of the time he was in the hospital, so we didn't know what he could experience, he was so sedated, but how they treated us as a family. They made such a difference during those eight weeks that we just realized after Pat died, we were filled with gratitude, and we were determined to find a way to say thank you. So, DAISY, okay, come back to my marketing thing. And actually Tina, Patrick's wife, also a marketing person, we got together at this dinner, and we came up with DAISY; Tina named it for Diseases Attacking the Immune System, really is a way to keep us connected and rooted in our experience with Patrick and his nurses, but we wanted a way for patients and families who also had an outstanding experience to be able to say thank you and share their stories of what nurses do every day. We created the DAISY Award as a way to partner with healthcare organizations invite patients, and families, and colleagues to nominate nurses for recognition that would happen all year long, every month, so that it wasn't just around saying thank you to nurses and having a Nurses Week party, but really having meaningful recognition throughout the year. We thought if we could say thank you to nurses in five hospitals, we'd feel better. I could go back into our vineyard and Mark would be doing what he was doing, and/or Tina could go back to figuring out her life with a brand new baby. But that's not what happened either, because obviously, over the years, today we are now almost 25 years later, partnering with over 6700 healthcare facilities and nursing schools in 41 countries.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Wow, Bonnie, that is remarkable. And okay, I have to go back and ask you a few things. First of all, what you said about, people go into the hospital, and they expect their nurses, physicians, their therapists, everybody to deliver excellent care. They expect clinical excellence. They're not thinking we're going to make mistakes. They're expecting that clinical excellence. But what they want is our compassion. That's what they want. And that's what you saw even during a very difficult time in your life. Their compassion really was what made your experience, quote-unquote, good experience, even though it was a bad experience. But I can only imagine, okay, you have a brand new grandbaby, Tina just lost her husband, you and Mark lost your son, and yet you're sitting there at a restaurant talking about all the goodness that you want to do because of your experience. You and I both know, Bonnie, there are some people that would have gone into a hole, and they wouldn't have been able to come out of it. So there was the three of you: Mark, you, and Tina. Were you all immediately on board with this, or did some of you need to be convinced that this was the right thing to do?

Bonnie Barnes:
We didn't expect it was going to be a big thing. It would be a little thing, right? We didn't think it was going to turn into our life's work. No, we didn't. We really, truly, in fact, I'm quoted here, when we started the program, first hospital connected, we connected with is the University of Washington Medical Center here in Seattle. And I have to give great credit to the chief nursing officer at the University of Washington Medical Center, where we started the program, Dr. Susan Grant. She is the first chief nurse who said yes. And if it were not for her welcoming us into her office, now, here we were, this grieving couple crying in her office saying, We have this idea. We want to say thank you, and here's how we want to do it. If she had not said yes, we probably would have gone off and done something else. But because of her opening the door and giving us a chance to really pilot the program and tweak it and figure out what worked and what didn't work, we then realized we had something with a little bit of legs, but honestly, it was a very hard sell. In the early part of 2000, because Patrick died in 1999, so by the very beginning of 2000, we were trying to figure out making cold calls and trying to get nursing officers to listen to us, and it was a slog. The first year we got, I think, four hospitals to sign on with us, and I was cold calling working at this every day. Second year we got three more, so now we have seven. The third year the hospital dropped it. They're back now, but they dropped down to six. It was really a slow slog. And frankly, it was years, almost ten years, of cold calling and trying to build word of mouth around the program. And the reason that we kept at it was because even early on, we saw nurses lift as a result of hearing the feedback that the DAISY Award was giving them. And that made us feel so good to know that we were giving them something positive. And I'll never forget Chief Nursing Officer were walking around her hospital in Sacramento, California, and she said, I know all this good stuff is happening in my hospital, but I never had a way to bring it out. I never had a way to acknowledge it because I didn't know the specific stories that were happening. That's what DAISY does.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, and you really said it. There is so much goodness happening out there now. Even in the pandemic, there was, there were amazing stories of compassion and hope and teams coming together, but we often don't talk about them, do we? And it's more of, and this, we all know this, what sells in the media; it's negativity. It's all the shock and horror, the gloom and doom that gets people's attention. And having DAISY that actually not only celebrates the goodness, but you're asking people to actually take it from inside their head and write it down, to actually nominate someone, to recognize someone. Because we say this a lot, even here at the Healthy Workforce Institute, with addressing bullying and incivility, we have this negativity bias. We're designed to be negative, negative as a human species. And then, when you work in healthcare, you're taught to be negative. You're taught to look for what's wrong. And so it's like we're going against the current trying to identify what's right. And DAISY, …, this is the right way of saying it, but it forces us to pause and say, wait a minute. I just witnessed this amazing nurse who didn't have to fill in the blank do this for this patient or for me, for my, you know, family member. You're providing a way for us to resist that, the negativity bias and actually go against the curve and celebrate the goodness. I love that you talk about stories and I love that DAISY, every DAISY nominee and award winner, there's a story written about them by a patient or family member and sometimes a colleague, though, right? Can you tell us a little bit how that all works?

Bonnie Barnes:
Yeah, let me come back one second, though, because you're focusing on something really wonderful here. And here I have to pay tribute to Dr. Cindy Lefton, who did the original foundational research on meaningful recognition in 2012. We were looking to build some evidence to understand what is it about DAISY that's serving healthcare. We had about 900 hospitals in our system at that time here in the US, and we were so excited, but we didn't really know what it was doing. And Cindy's, her PhD is in organizational psychology, has a real focus on positive psychology. And she explained to us how when something, to your point, when something goes wrong in a hospital or in any kind of healthcare setting, everybody stops the presses. They do a root cause analysis. They figure out what went wrong and how to not let it go wrong again. But what happens when something goes right? What happens when a patient has a great experience with the nurse that truly makes a difference in their experience and in their outcomes? Nothing. … makes everybody pause. Think about what happened. Evaluate how this practice could be shared. Celebrate it among nurses, colleagues, and among, most very importantly, the leadership of the organization. So they're focusing on what's right, and that's why we refer to really offsetting all the negative stuff. And as you described it before, squash down that negative and overwhelm it with positivity because it's there. Ordinary care is everywhere. And we know that with over 2.7 million nominations have been written so far and probably an undercount, that's what we know of, and 270,000 nurses have received the DAISY Award. Gratitude is pouring out of patience, and it was during the pandemic as well. DAISY, believe it or not, grew during the pandemic and the out and after effect has been now, our growth over the last couple of years has been astounding.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Wow. Well, and to your point, there's science behind this. There's evidence to support this type of recognition. I have a colleague of mine, her name is Sarah McDaniel, and she's a gratitude expert. And she talks about, and okay, I'm not shaming anyone, okay? No judging here, but giving your team a pizza is not meaningful recognition. And my take on it, this is my opinion. If you want to treat your team to pizza, do it but don't have it attached to as a reward for something because you're going to get people, I'm gluten sensitive, I can't eat that, or I don't eat dairy, or you're going to exclude someone. But feeding your people, I like to feed people. I'm Italian, food is love, you got to feed people, but don't attach it to some type of recognition because it doesn't work. But what you're doing at DAISY is you're, it's truly meaningful recognition based on evidence, based on positive psychology. Now, this isn't, and I'm curious, Bonnie, your opinion on this toxic positivity where the building's on fire but the leaders like, Everything is fine, everything is going well, and that's not what this is. This isn't trying to find every single situation something good and make a big deal about it. That's not what this is about. But I'd love your opinion on, and has anybody ever said, Oh, you're recognizing nurses, but there's all these real challenges out there, and we need to have somebody fixing these challenges?

Bonnie Barnes:
Well, there may be stuff like that going on social media. Nobody's ever said it to me personally, to be honest. And I suspect that there could be stuff like that out there we tend to not study that because what we know, healthcare is dealing with massive challenges. Nursing has massive challenges. If there's one small thing that we as a family and now a larger team that our foundation can do to pause while all that fixing is going on, to celebrate the reason that you all became nurses, which is to take care of the rest of us, that's worthy of celebration. And by the way, what we're studying now is the impact on the people who write those nominations. Mark and I know what it meant to us to say thank you to nurses, and now we've been dedicated to doing this, as I said, for 25 years. But we wanted to understand, and we do know something about how meaningful recognition impacts organizations and cultures and compassion fatigue among nurses and elevates compassion satisfaction. We got all that data. But what we also want to understand is what it means to patients and families to be able to say thank you in a meaningful way that is directed to the nurse that gave them so much. So, we did a pilot study in 2019, a qualitative study that interviewed people who wrote nominations. And it was so wonderful to see the healing impact that being able to write their story and express their gratitude, and then to be able to go to a DAISY celebration and be there when their nurse got honored, even if it was a terrible experience with a terrible outcome like ours. It meant something to the family to say thank you. So that's what we're examining now. The pandemic got in the way of rolling out this small study we did in 2019, but we will now study in a much larger scale, in a multi-site study, the impact on patients and families and how it connects them to their organization that gave them a way to say thank you.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Well, and a lot of organizations are looking at the satisfaction, the patient experience. I can absolutely see a connection to DAISY and meaningful recognition and giving the patients and the families that opportunity to thank their nurses as a way to improve their experience. It's like allowing them to close the loop. And so when do you think that the results of the study will be available?

Bonnie Barnes:
We approved the plan yesterday, but we have to recruit the hospitals first. We've been talking to a bunch of hospitals who are very interested in participating with us. So I would say we're aiming for the latter part of 2025 is a significant piece of research, and hopefully, the results are going to be consistent with what we learned in the pilot study, which was around just what you were describing in terms of there's a connection of loyalty to the organization, which has to do with patient satisfaction and all of that. But again, it's the psychological healing piece of this that we're really interested in understanding and also giving one of the things 6700 healthcare facilities, and we've got a lot of tools in place for them to use to make this program the best it can be. One of the things that we've learned is really important to the people who write the nominations. They want to know what happened to their nomination, but it's one more thing for the DAISY coordinators to do, and the DAISY Committee to do is to get back to that person who wrote the nomination. So we're working on, and we know the need is there. So we're looking at how you close that loop, patients to get that feedback and to feel that they have made a difference for that nurse. We learned in the pilot study how important it was that the patient who wrote the nomination said, This nurse did so much for me and my family. I need to do something in return. I need to balance that synergy. I need to create that synergy and be in a more balanced place. That was part of what they felt; they were getting out of this. They need to know what happened to their nomination, and it didn't go into a black hole someplace.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Well, that's a really good point. It's similar to when you ask the teams to complete a survey. And sometimes, even with my company, we'll ask our community to complete a survey. The question is all like we get the results, the organization gets the results. But are you closing the loop by sharing those results with your people? So, I know when we ask our community, we share the results with our community. So, very similar to what you're talking about, if I'm a patient or a family member of a patient and I put in a nomination for a nurse or someone who cared for me or my loved one, yeah, I want to know what happened with it. And even, it doesn't even matter if this person received a DAISY award. But did they get my letter? Did they read my letter? I think just letting them know in some way that they did is helping. And we're talking now a lot about closed loops because when you have an open loop causes you to use more energy in your brain, and your brain's always trying to close the loop. So it's always thinking, I wonder what happened, I wonder what happened, I wonder what happened and being able to close the loop. So are you doing that now, or are you planning to do that?

Bonnie Barnes:
No, we are doing that now by, with strong two ways. Strong encouragement to our health system partners as we come to understand how important this is. Secondly, working with some of our technology partners to come up with ways to make it easy so that the DAISY coordinator and the committee has a simple way to make sure that the nominator knows that, yes, the nomination was received, the nurse received a DAISY nominee pin, and that, you know, that they're grateful for you having done it. And if they actually are chosen to receive the DAISY Award, that person who wrote the nomination notes that, too. So we're putting in place, we are strong encouragement, making it an important message for all of our partners, and at the same time, working on some ways to make it easy.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
I think that's the key, too. First of all, you need to do this. It's important, the people, there's also that benefit on the giver in addition to the receiver. And there's all the science that backs that up, but you've got to make it easy for people to do that. Like doing it is absolutely you need to. But then how do you make it easy so it doesn't feel like one more thing somebody has to do?

Bonnie Barnes:
Here's another way that we're addressing this that I just realized I should mention to you. This is a really cool thing. We have a new partnership with AARP.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah.

Bonnie Barnes:
We're working with them to impress upon the public the importance of saying thank you to their nurses and helping us elevate the value of nursing to the public. There are over a million and a half AARP members who are retired nurses. How about bringing them in to volunteer to get back to the patients who write nominations and tell them about that their nomination was received or that their nominee was selected? And putting these nurse volunteers who love DAISY and are looking to do something in their community for their younger colleagues who are not retired. It's a great volunteer opportunity.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh, my gosh. My, seriously, my brain is like exploding right now because I have had several conversations over the last several months about all of these nurses retired, who retired because they lots of different reasons. A lot of it is the workload was so great. They're like, I'm out, I paid my dues, I'm out. But who really miss being in that space? Bringing them back in small bites, whatever they wanted to do different things. There's virtual nursing, mentoring, new grads. But oh my gosh, Bonnie, having them actually contribute to the nursing profession as part of DAISY and recognition, talk about feeling that you're doing meaningful work even though you're, quote-unquote, retired, you're still making a difference. I love that idea. I think that's incredible. So any of you retired nurses, okay, if you're listening to this and you want to get involved, well, here's your opportunity.

Bonnie Barnes:
Go volunteer at your hospital, too. And, plus, they get to read the nominations. Everyone who reads nominations, whether they're on the DAISY Committee or especially the chief nursing officers, tell us that it is incredibly special for them to be able to read all this positivity that's coming out of the patients that they serve.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Oh my God, yes. Even just preparing for this conversation with you on your website. I watched some of those videos, got the goosebumps, got the little overcome with emotion, made me want to go back to the bedside and be a nurse again at the bedside, because what an opportunity we have as nurses to truly make a difference in the lives of people, especially during a difficult time in, I think, all of our lives. But reading those stories, Bonnie, gave me hope for the future of nursing. It cut through the negativity noise that's out there, and to have an opportunity to read those stories, read those nominations, it fills your cup. There's no better way of saying it, it totally fills your cup. All right, I do have a question for you. This is the classic when someone thanks a nurse and they respond by saying, I'm just the nurse or I'm just doing my job, okay, have you ever had DAISY nominees or award winners who downplay this award?

Bonnie Barnes:
All of them. We're on a campaign. And I will say, my husband, Mark, is the leader of this, to stop nurses from saying I didn't do anything special, I'm just doing my job. For years, I have joked, but I honestly think there's something to this. Like where in the nursing curriculum did you learn these words? Everybody says it. And I have a couple of thoughts on what we say in response. Number one: just is a four letter word; get it out of your vocabulary. You are a nurse and we feel very strongly about the profession of nursing. But secondly, the way that nurses speak about their own work and if they undervalue it, the rest of the world is going to undervalue it. At a time when nursing is eagerly trying to uplift itself and take its seat at the table at the best of the tables and make a stand. Our frontline nurses cannot be saying, I'm just doing my job, and them saying that, really denies the person who is giving them gratitude and sharing their story and saying thank you. It denies them the gift of being able to say thank you, which we know is important for all of us. So, as we were just saying, don't negate my saying thank you to you. It's, say thank you back. It's really about a culture of gratitude. And we've got a little sign that's, goes up into patient rooms that says, Want to say thank you to your nurse? We don't talk about nominating nurses for an award anymore. We learned early on that saying thank you was much more important and meaningful. But the sign says, Want to say thank you to your nurse? And my point is, you don't even have to write a nomination. Just say thank you when the nurse does something for you or anyone else who comes in your room, right? Now, make that room a room of gratitude. And it goes both ways. So if the nurse says, Oh, I'm just doing my job, you're denying the patient a way to express themselves.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah, I think people are uncomfortable receiving compliments. I will admit: when somebody talks about my work, I get a little uncomfortable, and I, without realizing it, try to shift the focus away from me because I'm just thinking because I think a lot of times, too, it's, it goes beyond that I'm just doing my job. But I know myself when I was working at the bedside and I have this same experience now in doing this work to address bullying and incivility, I always end my day feeling like I could have done more. I should have done more. And I think part of our if we're uncomfortable receiving mission, I think some of it stems from that. I know I could have done more; I should have done more. And that, as you said, Bonnie, like we need to get control of that. We need to be able to just look somebody in the eye who's complimenting us or thanking us and just say, You're welcome, my honor.

Bonnie Barnes:
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for saying it. That means a lot. And the person who is the most important person to, I think, to every nurse is their patient. Thank you for saying it.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Yeah. It's just simple. It doesn't have to be, you know, you have to go on. It's just, Thank you for saying that, or, You're welcome. I appreciate you saying that, and mean it.

Bonnie Barnes:
And being a nurse. I love being a nurse because I don't want a nurse that doesn't talk about how much they love this profession. Even with all of the challenges and traumas that are going on, nurses at the core of it say, I love being a nurse. I just wish all these other things could get fixed.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
The core of what you're saying is we love. It's all the other, all the other challenges. But okay, a little birdie told me that you may be in the process of updating this fantastic book. So it is Shining the Light on All the Right, and I have a personalized signed copy from Bonnie and Mark. So can you tell us, is this okay? I hope it's okay to let people know that you're updating this.

Bonnie Barnes:
Oh, absolutely. We wrote the book for our 20th anniversary. Well, I'll be really honest with you. We didn't write the book. We had a fabulous ghostwriter named Jim Ebert. He learned our story, told our story better than we ever could have told it ourselves. But the purpose of the book was really to document how we went from Patrick's bedside to, at the time, about 4000 hospitals around the world that were honoring nurses with our program, and it was to celebrate our 20th anniversary. It came out in February of 2020. A lot of stuff has happened since then. Now, we have our 25th anniversary and we just felt that our story was not complete. I hope it will never be complete, but at least we really needed to update it. So we have new DAISY stories in the book, which I think are some of the best parts of it are we recount stories of what nurses have done that have received the DAISY Award, and we spent quite a lot of time thinking about how to talk about the last five years, not focusing on all the stuff that went on in the pandemic, but using the pandemic as a backdrop to saying how meaningful recognition. And, by the way, the addition of Dr. Deb Zimmermann to our team as our CEO, how this has taken DAISY to a whole new place. And I'm really proud of the new chapters in the book. It will be out no later than the fall, certainly probably September. It's at the printer, and it's the 25th anniversary of Shining the Light on All the Right, and I can't wait for people to get their hands on it.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
I can't wait to get my hands on the updated version because I so enjoyed the original. And again, it was the stories. People, human beings, they want to hear, stories. They, that's how we learn. We learn through other people by hearing their stories. And just so you know, we'll have a link to the DAISY Foundation in the show notes, along with a link to the current book that you have. And Bonnie, if somebody wanted to connect with you, what should they connect with you on LinkedIn?

Bonnie Barnes:
LinkedIn is fine, but honestly, I love emails. I know people don't love emails, but I'm not a great social media person, so I usually end up replying to people on LinkedIn but giving them my email address because that way, I can say let's talk, let's make a time to talk and get together. So [email protected] is where I would love to hear from people, but certainly, LinkedIn is a fine place.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Right, because we will put all of that in the show notes. And actually, you mentioned Deb Zimmermann, one of my other favorite humans. I, we interviewed her on the podcast, which will be coming out shortly. So it depends on when you're listening to this. Just so you know, we'll have the link to Deb's episode in the show notes for Bonnie, because we did talk to her a little bit about her work at the DAISY Foundation. And I'll never forget when I saw the announcement that she was joining DAISY. I'm a goosebump type of person. Like, my internal tells me that I'm on the right track with something or something's really meaningful. And when I saw that announcement like, oh my gosh. That was the perfect person to join you, and Mark, and Tina, and your team at DAISY, so I have no doubt she's already making a huge difference.

Bonnie Barnes:
She is that, yes.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Bonnie, as we wrap up, let's say somebody is listening and they've not heard of DAISY, or maybe they have, but DAISY isn't a part of how they recognize nurses and their organization. What would you recommend as the first step? Like how could they get involved?

Bonnie Barnes:
Yeah, go to DAISYFoundation.org, and on the site, they'll be, under the DAISY Award tab, request information, and that, there's a little form there. You fill that out. That goes to one of our fabulous team members who are responsible for educating prospects on how DAISY works and what it entails, as well as providing all the tools, and coaching, and training to make the program the best it can be. So, DAISYFoundation.org, request information, and you'll be connected to one of our regional program people.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
That's awesome. Oh, my gosh, Bonnie. Thank you so much for being a guest on our show. Okay, I said, I know you're really busy, but to carve out some time for us, I'm just very grateful for your amazing work at the DAISY Foundation, and I'm going to say for not giving up. I think that those first ten years, the first year you had four, and the second year you had three, and you never gave up. If you would have given up, we wouldn't have the DAISY Foundation and the meaningful recognition that is really a global phenomenon and so needed right now. So thank you for your perseverance; not giving up.

Bonnie Barnes:
Nothing if not persistent, I'll tell you that.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
My gosh, I love it. Thank you so much for being a guest and for your great work. Truly, the world is a better place with you and your team in it. So thank you, Bonnie.

Bonnie Barnes:
Thank you, Renee. It's my sincere pleasure to be with you. I'm such an admirer of the work you're doing and the synergy between us is so evident that I couldn't wait to have some time with you.

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Thank you for that. I'm not going to downplay or say, Oh, no, I'm. I don't do as good as you. Thank you, thank you for that. I appreciate it. All right. And listeners, thank you for being here, for everything that you do to squash the badness, but at the same time, elevate and grow the goodness. And if you like this podcast, please make sure you rate it, review it, and share it with others. We have important work to do in healthcare, and there's so much goodness out there. We all need to come together and start recognizing the goodness. So, thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time. Bye!

Bonnie Barnes:
Bye bye!

Dr. Renee Thompson:
Thank you for listening to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. If you found this podcast helpful, we invite you to click the Subscribe button and tune in every week. For more information about our show and how we work with healthcare organizations to cultivate and sustain a healthy work culture free from bullying and incivility, visit us at HealthyWorkforceInstitute.com. Until our next cup of coffee, be kind, take care, and stay connected.

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