EP 39: Navigating Leadership Challenges: Building Resilient Healthcare Teams

Coffee Break_Dr Nicole Kolacz: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Coffee Break_Dr Nicole Kolacz: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Intro/ Outro:
Plants thrive and grow in a peaceful, nourished environment, right? Well, it's the same with human beings. But what if that environment is not so peaceful? What if it's toxic? Welcome to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. In this podcast, you'll get practical, evidence-based strategies to help you cultivate and sustain a healthy and respectful work culture by tackling an age-old problem in healthcare: bullying and incivility. I am your host, Dr. Renee Thompson.

Renee Thompson:
Hi everyone! Welcome back to another episode of the Coffee Break Podcast. Wherever you are, wherever you are, whether you're listening or watching, I hope you're having a great week. Today, I'm excited to have a coffee chat with Dr. Nicole Kolacz, the CNO from Aultman Hospital in Canton, Ohio. So welcome to the show, Nicole.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Hi Renee, I'm super excited to be here today. I think the world of you. So I'm honored.

Renee Thompson:
Thank you. I think the world of you, too; Nicole and I have been working for, I don't know, Nicole. Has it been a year, at least, I think?

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Yeah, at least. Maybe two, close to two, even. When I first discovered your work with bullying and incivility, we brought that here to the Aultman campus and now to our system.

Renee Thompson:
Yes. I remember when we first met, and this is very classic, people reach out to say, okay, we're dealing with this. What can we do about it? And what we've done at Aultman is that we have an online program. It's our Eradicating Bullying and Incivility program. We offer this in a variety of ways. One of the ways, and this is how Aultman has joined us, is really as a cohort. And we've done multiple cohorts now, and it's really giving the leaders the knowledge, skills, and tools that they need to do something about disruptive behaviors. And I don't know, I've had so many conversations with your leaders and, obviously, with you, Nicole, that when this part of our family now is the Healthy Workforce Institute. This is how we really feel about you and your team. It's just been really nice to see the improvements over the last one and a half, two years. I am so very grateful for our partnership.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Thank you. The feelings are mutual, so thank you.

Renee Thompson:
It's good to tell you a little bit more about Nicole. Nicole is what I would consider and others would consider, especially her team, she is a true servant leader, and she leads by example. And one of the things I so appreciate about Nicole, as I've gotten to know her, is her insane passion for developing her leaders. And what I also find very endearing is that Nicole, you started your career as a nursing assistant when you were in nursing school, didn't you?

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
I did. I did at this campus many years ago.

Renee Thompson:
Oh, really?

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Yes, yes, while I was in nursing school. i worked here as a nurse aide. I jokingly tell everyone I was five years old when I started.

Renee Thompson:
Of course, of course, of course. I've always been, I don't know if that is envious or jealous or what the right word is, but I have never worked as a nursing assistant. I went right from, I guess I worked as a medical assistant in a clinic before I became a nurse, but I always recognize how important it is to have some exposure to what the hospital setting is really like before you become a nurse. I did not have that experience, and I don't know if I did or if it would have changed anything, but I think it's a smart thing to do. And so when I read that about you, I was like, oh, that's super cool. Again, Nicole is 100% committed to lifelong learning for herself and her team. And she's also involved in the Ohio Organization of Nurse Leaders organization, which they're my people. Okay, all of the channels across the country are like this. This is a group of nurse leaders who are really out there trying to make healthcare a better place, and I really appreciate the good work that you're also doing, Nicole, so thank you.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Thank you.

Renee Thompson:
So, what are we going to talk about today? Because I've gotten to know Nicole. One of the things that I recognize is critically important to cultivating and sustaining a healthy work culture is that, first of all, you've got to equip your leaders, and Nicole is already doing that, okay? You've got to equip your leaders, but you also have to create space for those leaders to come together and create this safe place for them where they can be honest and share their challenges. They can be vulnerable to each other. They can give each other feedback. And you've done this so well. So, I'd like to start our conversation by learning more about how you're doing that.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Sure. I would say it's a journey. Number one, we are never fully there. I think it's something that we're always working towards. I think it starts with our leadership. It starts with me having to take the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes my way and not being reactive to it, processing that, modeling the behavior that I want to see, creating that environment in that form where it's okay to fail and make mistakes. I'd be the first to tell you we trial many things here.

Renee Thompson:
I love that.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Yeah, small tests of change. And I'm not afraid to say that it didn't work, or we need to pivot and move to something different because as we've done it, we've learned from that. But I think it's having the respect for the team. We all bring something different to the table. So, I really appreciate their viewpoints and what they bring to the table. I don't want a bunch of people like me around the table. I think it's easy to put people like you around you. That's your natural. That's our natural tendency. But I think it's really important for me to have people who aren't like me, who will be honest and give me that feedback and help me to help them. We get through the good days and the bad days all together at the end of the day, and it really takes the team to do that.

Renee Thompson:
So I'm curious because what we have found in some of the research we've done, we've asked questions about, okay, who are the disruptors, who is behaving badly in healthcare? And we ask leaders, is it their employees? Is it other people's employees? Is it physicians? Providers? Is it patients and their families, or is it other leaders? And I was surprised initially, that, okay, the number one, my employees. … I'm dealing with my employees who are not always behaving professionally. But the second highest was other leaders. And what I find in all the work I'm doing out there is that it always comes up, what if the leaders are part of the problem, the leadership team? Because I'm thinking of the classic, I used to work as a neurosurgical step-down unit nurse, and we had a neuro ICU and a neuro med surg floor, and each of those three departments had a unit director. And let me tell you, they did not get along, and there were always passive-aggressive behaviors and throwing each other under the bus. But at the leadership meetings, oh, they were on their best behavior. We know this is a problem, yet you've created a space for them to come together, to be vulnerable, to admit that they're struggling, and to give each other maybe some feedback. But I'm sure when you started doing this, people didn't just immediately say, oh my gosh, yeah, hey, if you have any feedback for me or anything with my team, please tell me, how did you get them past that initial guardedness? I think that many leaders have when giving honest feedback to people.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Sure, I think that takes time. It just takes time to cultivate those relationships. I think I'm a big connector. When you look at some of the different leadership-like voices that are out there, one of my voices is a connector. So I think you have to create places for them to come together as a team. I think o,f we have a leadership team huddle with all of the leadership team in my division. We do that every two weeks. We huddle. I love it when it's in person. We try to do it in person. We have an online option as well, but I think creating those places for them to come together and connect more, I think when people are together more, they tend to behave a little better, or they work better together; I should say not behave, but they work better together because they see each other as true teammates, and that's really why I want people to see each other as true teammates. I know we have titles, and there's a hierarchy, but we are all here together to move the needle where we need to move it with quality, experience, or engagement. I also think being vulnerable a little bit yourself and saying that you don't always have all the answers. I know you did a call for us on Nurses Week. That was very kind of you. My team loved that, by the way. And I think someone brought up a scenario, and you said it's okay that you don't have all the answers. And I was getting ready to echo; I think I had my hand up to say: healthcare is complex. It takes a team, and there are many times I have to think about it, or I have to reach out to others and consult and say, what do we do here and talk it through?

Renee Thompson:
You find that hard. Do you find that hard to say because you're the chief nursing officer? You're supposed to be the all-knowing and the all-solving problem solver. Do you find it hard to say either? I don't know. And there's the standard. I don't know, but I'll get back to you. But say, you know what, I don't know, or yeah, that's not a strength of mine. Or do you find it hard to admit that? Because I do. I will tell you I do. I struggle with it, and I have to manage myself because I think I should have all the answers.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
I do. Like you, I struggle with it, but I also have realized that I put people around me as my team that have strengths that I don't have, and so I will tap into their strengths. And we, again, are a team. So how do we get there together? So it is hard because I think, to your point, leaders are always tasked with knowing every answer, just every policy, every answer, just rattling it off. And it's a complex world we're in right now, and it takes all of us together, different viewpoints. Sometimes, people think of things that maybe I wouldn't think of.

Renee Thompson:
It reminds me of, I read something, I fall in love with it. And then I repeated ad nauseam. Somebody corrected me. It's not at nauseam. It's ad nauseam, okay? Ad nauseam. One of the things that I'm in love with right now is this whole concept of lateral agility. And lateral agility is really an athletic term, and if you look it up, it basically teaches you how to bob and weave. But lateral agility is so useful in healthcare and understanding that it's not just you, it's not just you in your department; it's the whole organization. And the part that I think is incredibly powerful is understanding collaborative problem-solving, and that really speaks to what you're talking about. You don't have all the answers. You may not be the best one. So, who are your key stakeholders? Who do you ask for help? Knowing that ahead of time, I think, is incredibly important, especially as a leadership team. And so I'm wondering, Nicole, do you, as part of this opportunity where you bring your leaders together, is there any part of that where the leaders are getting to know each other, either building relationships with each other, just getting to know each other on somewhat of a personal level, but then also getting to know who's good at what because I know I'm certainly not good at everything, but thank goodness I have people on my team who are way better at things than I am, right?

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
I think as we work through different challenges, they learn strengths. And if I look at my leadership team, and I'm sure this could be applied to everyone, if you just look at your team, you have novice to expert right on your 'you think better'. I think we have a lot probably we probably have a fair number of experienced nurse leaders, but we have a good number of novices who became nurse leaders during COVID or right after COVID. And that was, I don't even want to use that word, but it's the facts, and it's created what we are, where we are today. But I think learning skill sets, seeing other leaders in action, and knowing the strengths when we work on certain projects. I love to give either leaders or up-and-coming leaders that I know have the want to desire to be a leader, to give them the opportunity to do a project or an initiative. And you really try to be intentional about the skill set that you're matching up because you want it to be successful for them. So they build that confidence. So I think bringing them together, working through projects together collectively as a team, we'll jokingly say something about a team member like, oh, that's your skill set. So, I think they learn that over time.

Renee Thompson:
Sure. And I think too, there's that whole self-awareness, right? Every single one of us, if you're in a leadership role, okay, and beyond, but especially if you're in a leadership role, if you haven't figured out what you're good at, what you're not good at, how you process information, you make quick decisions, or do you need time to process, and if you don't know your communication style, right, you don't know how other people perceive you, you got to start there. Because by knowing, again, what you're so good at and what you're not good at, is going to help you when you have these projects, when you're doing these tests of change you can say, you know what, I'll tackle that because this is what I'm good at. Or oh, no, somebody else needs to do that part because I know myself I'm a better speaker than I am a writer, okay? And writing, I'm a good creative writer, but I am not a good scholarly writer. It's embarrassing to me, actually. Not so good. But when asked to write an article, I always want to partner with someone, And I let them know right from the beginning; I would write, but they need to make it pretty. Okay? Like you need to fix it. And I will not take offense if I get it back from you, and it's all red marks from track changes. So would you say that, especially since you mentioned you have new leaders, and these new leaders learned during the global pandemic, I'm going to put this in the show notes. I had a conversation with Michelle Conley, she's the regional chief nursing officer at Jefferson. We'll put her link in the show notes, but we talked specifically about this. They learned in crisis mode how to be leaders. And now that we're not in crisis mode anymore, knock on wood, they don't know what to do. They don't know how to manage. Especially with your newer leaders. How are you creating the space for them to now say, I don't know this, I need help with this, or I'm really struggling with that? Do you find that your experienced leaders are taking them under their wing now or not?

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
I do think that they take them under their wing. I also think they've had to go through the pandemic as well. We're in a place right now where we're really trying to pivot past the pandemic. I'd say, just how do we know the agility of the bobs and weaves you're talking about? How do we do that reset with the other challenges that we face? And I think it's building the basics back again and being available. I'm very visible as a leader. I'm out and about and I'm rounding on staff but also checking in on leaders. I do care an awful lot about my team. People need to be seen and heard and feel appreciated, and I tend to notice when if you know your people, you tend to notice when something's not right. And so I work through their leader, or I'll meet with them and reach out and say, what's going on? How can I help? Leadership is hard, but it doesn't need to be that way. We have to support each other and create an environment that's safe and helps them to progress in their career. We can't lose our leaders.

Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
And the work AONL is doing right now, I think, is so impactful as we, you know, work towards our future and create what that will be for us. So I really feel just creating that environment for them and being a leader that cares and really trying to put them in their best light to build that confidence, especially for a new leader and where they should focus and what their efforts should, where they should put their time right now. And we know the front-line leader's job is the hardest, right?

Renee Thompson:
Yes. I remember being a frontline manager, and I'm sure everybody's heard my story by now, but I lasted 14 months. I had no idea what I was doing, and there was nothing to equip me with. Again, the knowledge, the skills, and the tools to address disruptive behaviors because it was a department that had the worst reputation of any department in the entire 700-bed hospital and quit. We talk a lot about staff turnover and nurse turnover. We're finally starting to talk about leadership turnover. And you're right, Nicole; AONL is doing a great job and really taking a look at the scope of work of that frontline manager and the skills that they need now versus the skills, even when you and I were frontline managers, they were different because the workforce is different. So, I'd love your thoughts on what it takes to be a good leader in today's environment. I think we have three more episodes just on that topic alone, but I really love your input.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
I think I'd throw it out by saying it's probably a good support system, whatever that means. That's something different for everyone. I am beyond blessed to have support at home and in the workplace. I think adaptability comes to mind when I am a flexible leader. And I think about leadership styles, and I know you mentioned I lean more towards the servant, but I think situational leadership comes to mind, and I think you have to again, use the word pivot or bob and weave, as you said. Sometimes your leadership style has to adapt a little bit to the situation that you're in. You always have to be authentic. There's another as a leader, authentic and true to yourself. But you also sometimes have to think about the message you're delivering or where you're trying to go and what that requires, where you have to move to. As a leader, I'd see energy, enthusiasm, and passion for what you get to do. I love what I get to do every day, even on the hard days. I think that as leaders, and maybe this is a nursing profession, we beat ourselves up. It's never enough. All the things that didn't go right. I just told a leader last week we were text messaging, and she sent me a thank you text. And as we're texting back and forth, it's going towards all the things that aren't going right. And I said you need to spend as much time today thinking about all the things that didn't go right as you did that didn't go right. And she said, wow, okay. Thank you for giving me that perspective and resetting me to think that way. Because we do need to spend in all fairness, we need to spend an equal amount of time. If you're going to, you're going to think about all the things that didn't go right for ten minutes. Then you need to spend ten minutes thinking about all the things that went right today and the impact that you made because the impact is far greater than probably people realize. I'd say people are; that's the passion of a leader. The people are a number one priority. They have to be our priority. Creating that trust, walking the talk, being visible, and recognizing meeting people where they are. What's important to them as a senior leader is getting to know your team, their names, and things about them. I think that's impactful because I do care about them, and that, I think, goes a long way. Continuous learning comes to mind, and growing learning never ends.

Renee Thompson:
I know this about you that you are a lifelong student. And that's why I think you and I get along so well. I'm going on vacation. And we're going to a tropical island in the Caribbean, and you just lay around at the pool or on the beach, the swim-up bar, all that good stuff. First of all, I don't know how I'm going to just relax, but it's my goal. It's my goal to just go and do nothing, but I won't do anything. I have probably 12 books lined up, and I have all these things on my computer. I'm like, oh, I want to read that. Oh, I want to learn that. My husband and I were even talking about learning Italian because we will go to Italy next year. I've not learned.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Yes.

Renee Thompson:
And you are the exact same way. So you're always learning something, and you're that role model for your leaders, because one of the things that I know you do in your leadership sessions, your groups when you bring them together, is talk about blog articles, podcasts, and books. So, can you talk a little bit more about how you are, so I know you're a lifelong learner, and how you're influencing your leaders to do the same?

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Sure. I guess I'll go back to, first and foremost, the same example. Learning never ends. I get in front of our newly hired nurses. I meet with them all when they are onboarding, and I set that message right from the very beginning. I talk to them about themselves as continuous learners and that they've got to continue to learn. But I also talk about, we are teaching facilities here, and that we see residents and students and nurse nursing students here, and that we have to teach back. We have to give back and teach. I think for my leaders, one of the things that we started at the end of last year was something called a learning leaders group. This started because, I think we were in leadership is peaks and valleys. We were probably more in the valley, and I found myself not reading as much and not listening to podcasts as I had done before. And for me, those things learning really fill my bucket. It's one of those things that filled my bucket reading books, and I felt like we needed to bring our team together and let's talk about it because you read something and you cement the principle better when you can talk about it with the team or with another person, right?

Renee Thompson:
Absolutely.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
We brought this group together at the end of last year. It's not mandatory. We meet every other week as we can, and I will push out a blog article. We've read some of your material or listened to something that you've done, or I think of some other leaders, or we're looking maybe doing a book now; we push it out, and the group gets it, they read it, and we come back or listen to it. We come back as a team, and then we talk through it. What were everyone's impressions of it? We start applying it. What was the one takeaway?

Renee Thompson:
Love it, yeah.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
And I'll admit, as a leader, it's hard to get there some days. But once you're there, you can't help but put a smile on your face, it fills your bucket beyond measure. And I know it's very meaningful and impactful to have leaders around the table and really being vulnerable sometimes, talking about what's not as a leader yourself, where you could have done better or gosh, I learned something here, but just being authentic.

Renee Thompson:
There's a resource that we have called Five Common Mistakes Leaders Make. And it's one of my favorite conversations with leaders because I've made every one of those mistakes. And chances are I'm pretty confident they've all made these mistakes, too. And actually, the resource, I'll put a link in the show notes. But what I love about learning something is to, as you said, you learn something, and then you reflect, and you say, ooh, this is how I was handling these situations, but I just learned a better way to handle it, and then you go, and you do that better way. And when you have that structure where you're meeting every other week and what I think is really important too, it's not all the same. It's not like, oh, every other week we're going to read a blog article, or we're going to, listen to, like you're mixing it up is to get them on that path of always looking at, here's maybe a solution, or here's sometimes books or articles or podcasts or more of a mindset shift, right? They help you think differently about being a leader, but others, it's mechanics, do these things, very practical things. And to be able to have that space where they can come together and that ongoing learning and not make it mandatory, this should be something that you're pushing. So I have a push-and-pull strategy when it comes to learning. The organization needs to push content out to its people, okay, and that's what you're doing, Nicole. You're pushing it out. You're creating a space for it. You're saying, okay, this is what we will be looking at. But these leaders need to pull it, too. They can't just rely on you. And so, are you creating opportunities for other leaders to actually bring content to that meeting so that it isn't just you?

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Yes, I encourage them. A couple of them have sent me articles like, hey, let's use this one or the next one. I'm one of the leaders, just was on vacation and read a book. And so, one that was on my list. It's on my list to read and was talking through with the group because it segwayed into our article that we were reading for the week, and we talked about the group. Maybe that's a book we because we've been talking about a book, maybe that's the book that we should read. So they definitely send me and feed me, like, here's a podcast here and I incorporate those in. I'll also add that, as a leader, a lot of our articles are topics or podcasts, videos, or, they're about leadership. But sometimes, too, we incorporate things like self-care or just boundaries or how important sleep is, or because a healthy leader is a good leader, right? You got to be healthy yourself. And I think of time management just, so we thread different themes throughout depending on kind of what comes, what comes my way, or what someone sends to me.

Renee Thompson:
That's something that's really important to consider. Okay, we're talking about learning, we're talking about creating space for your leaders to come together and learn, and when you think of all of the demands that are placed on our leaders today, you've got HCAP scores, you've got employee engagement, you've got I mean, it's so overwhelming. So, the focus may be on helping them to be a leader who does all of that. Well, great, but if you're not including content related to how they can take care of themselves and even things, as you said, time management, which I look at, just energy management, like, how are we, you know, protecting our energy, right? You're missing a big piece of it because people say, oh, work-life balance. There's no work-life balance. I look at it as work-life integration, but how to help them to better take care of themselves. As Nicole, as part of our EBI, our cohorts, everybody's invited to a monthly live culture call and last in June. So this is June when we're recording this. I wasn't able to facilitate that call. And somebody on my team, Diane Salter, who is fantastic, okay, I always have such confidence when I know she's going to take over the call. She asked me ahead of time, Would it be okay if I talked about, like, well-being of the leader? And I said 100%, yes, they need this because every single month, we talk about some aspect of a healthy work culture addressing disruptive behaviors. We talk about a lot of the mechanics of it, how to do this. But it was so well received. These leaders were basically like, you could tell they were struggling with this. And she talked about it wasn't just, okay, everybody meditate for five minutes. That's not what self-care and well-being is. It could be a part of it. And keeping that in mind that it's not just, we're going to talk about specific things that are going to help you do your job better. We're going to also include things that are going to help you to be a happier human being, great, and feel good about the work that you do. And yeah, you're doing such a great job with that. All right.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
I think there's always space to do more there. I think we have a shared governance council for nursing leaders as well. And that's my chair and co-chair. This year we're going to use the AONL work as a way to start some dialogue with nurse leaders on what are some things we can commit to across the organization to create that healthy work environment for leaders as well. So I'm looking forward to that.

Renee Thompson:
It's logical that you would include your shared governance because I always say it starts with the leaders, but it's not just the leaders. You have to involve the people who are on the front line. And I love the whole concept of professional governance, so it makes perfect sense. Okay, we've talked about a lot of different things. I want to start wrapping up by looking at what are the skills that today's leader needs to be successful. And you've talked about having a good support system and being flexible, and we talked about having that positive energy and the ability to bob and weave and not beat yourself up, get the help that you need. But let's say we have an executive or maybe a frontline manager who's listening to this right now, and everything that you're talking about is resonating with them, but they have nothing in place. Where would you recommend that they start?

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
That's a great question, Renee. I think that is a little bit individual for everyone, but I think there's always I look, for me, I think about podcasts. I have a leadership journal myself. I listen to podcasts, or I watch a TED talk, or I read a book, and I keep a journal, paper, and pencil, old school. And I'm electronic all the way, but just something about writing it. Again, I always think back to surrounding yourself with people that you aspire to be like that, saying the five people that you like or the five people around you are going to put five good people around you. And I think there's always someone in your organization that you can connect to, to identify someone who may be in your mind as, want to say, has it all together, or someone that you look up to. In my career, I've always been a people watcher, looking at leaders, how they lead the good and the bad, so to speak, and reaching out and just seeing what they're doing and maybe taking a walk. I know we do a lot of walks here at lunchtime, just, hey, whoever can come down, meet in the circle and we go for a walk and we talk. And I think those might be good ways to start following some leaders on social media, just getting those pieces of leadership incorporated. But I think there's always someone in your organization that is like-minded, a learner wanting to grow as a leader. And maybe that's a good start, a good starting point, and together looking at some blog articles or reading a book together or listening to a podcast and kind of just talking through it, we learn through each other. And that's the best learning when you can apply those concepts to your everyday work.

Renee Thompson:
And I think you're right, it can just start very small, perhaps someone else that you either aspire to be like or that you think is also a big learner. Maybe they talk about, oh, I've read this article, or hey, I just listened to this podcast, and it just starts maybe with two people you, and then it can grow from there. What you're also talking about is as a leader, you need to pull the information. Don't wait. So, if your organization doesn't do what Nicole does by having it every other week, we get together. You can start it yourself. Don't wait for that to happen, but start pulling that information because that's what's going to help you to be a better leader, especially in today's challenging healthcare environment. And Nicole, I just want to thank you for being on the show and for sharing your great work at Aultman Hospital. Again, you're like our family here. We love you and the work that Elizabeth has done. It's just been really great to spend time with your leaders. I've talked to so many of them individually, and the coaching that we do with them, and we are just very grateful that you've recognized that cultivating a healthy work culture doesn't just happen by default, like you have to work at it, and you're certainly doing that at Aultman. So, thank you so much for your good work.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Thank you. It's been an honor being here. We love you. We love HWI and everything that you're doing. I think I've told you before that I really love and admire the work that you're doing for nursing as a profession. I think the work we do in our organization is important, but as leaders, we also have that commitment as a professional to advance us professionally for the future. And I really feel that you are doing a tremendous job at that for us. So, I value and respect you beyond.

Renee Thompson:
Oh my gosh, thank you so much. You just made my day.

Dr. Nicole Kolacz:
Hey, nurses should support each other.

Renee Thompson:
And celebrate each other, and recognize each other, not be so cruel to each other. And again, we have really important work to do. And this work is important not only to me personally, but to the future of nursing and our profession. It's really been an honor working with you and your team and some of the other groups that we've been working with because, again, we have important work to do. So I want to thank you again for all the great work that you're doing, and for all of you who are listening right now or watching, thank you for pulling good content into your world because that's how we get better. You just can't, through osmosis, learn how to be a better leader. You have to seek out the advice and wisdom from other people. And that's why I love having this podcast, because I learn from other people as well. If you're interested in learning more about the program that Aultman Hospital is involved in, I'll have a link to that in the show notes. We can certainly help you as we've helped Aultman. And so, if you like this podcast, please do not forget to rate it. Give us a review and share it with your colleagues who may need to hear this right now. So, thank you again for being here. Take care everyone.

Intro/ Outro:
Thank you for listening to Coffee Break: Breaking the Cycle of Bullying in Healthcare – One Cup at a Time. If you found these practical strategies helpful, we invite you to click the Subscribe button and tune in For more information about our show and how we work with healthcare organizations to cultivate and sustain a healthy work culture free from bullying and incivility, visit HealthyWorkforceInstitute.com. Until our next cup of coffee, be kind, take care, and stay connected.

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